Full Episode Transcript

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:01.613)

Hello and welcome back to the AND/BOTH podcast. I am here today with Melissa Llarena and she has all sorts of wonderful things to share. She's got a book, she's got her own podcast, she is a mom, she is doing the thing. So first of all, welcome and thank you for being here.

Melissa Llarena (00:20.37)

Thank you, Dr. Ashley. I'm so excited to have you exploring this world of podcasting. I'm like 224 episodes in, and I know what that was like. So congratulations.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:31.636)

Amazing. Thank you. Yeah, it's always that like, you know, I think it's a great idea, it's a good idea, and then you get everything all lined up and you hit record and you're like, oh, maybe I don't, like maybe I am the talking frog, right? Like maybe I don't actually have something to say, but I just keep talking.

Melissa Llarena (00:50.722)

Aww. You do. Every single mom has a point of view and I would love to see and read it all over the place, which brings us to this conversation. So I appreciate this.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:02.596)

Yeah, I think and I think too, like that's the thing, right? Is there's no like, there's so much polish that gets put into everything. It's like, you know, like social media, right? Like social media started out as this very like, I guess, at a collaborative space where people are just sharing things. And then and then there's dollar signs that emerge on. And now all of a sudden, everything's polished and there's lighting and there's perspective and there's monetization. And then it's like, reality just kind of gets a little weevil wobbly. And so I'm hoping, my goal, I'm going to, I'm not saying I'm hoping, my goal is to keep this a real space for real stories. Because I think that that's the thing that we're all looking for when we're scrolling on the internet is we're not looking for the person with the like perfectly polished life. We're looking for the person who's like, yeah, today was upside down and sideways because I'm also a human. So.

Melissa Llarena (01:59.062)

Mm. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Definitely. I think, you know, it's so interesting, having been a coach for 12 years at this point, right, and a mom of three at the same time, speaking of your, you know, and comment, right, mom and entrepreneur in tandem, I've seen the evolution of content, you know, in the very beginning, to your point, there was that raw, real, unfiltered and then it went to like extreme filtered and all these other, you know, things that we don't even know, right? Like plastic surgery for the camera and all these other things. And for me, what I have done to keep it going is I've had to stay real. And some of it is because I'm an actual mom.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (02:45.64)

Mm-hmm. We're throwback.

Melissa Llarena (02:57.35)

And it's like, you know, here's my decision. Either I'm doing a live stream now and yes, my kids are making a mess behind me or I do nothing and I wanted to stay visible because I'm not interested in being invisible. You know what I mean?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (03:03.032)

Yeah. And that's that. And that's another super important point about social media is like, if you're not at your best, you shouldn't be on there. Right. Like that's what happens when everything is polished. It's like if you don't have your hair done or your makeup done or whatever, then like nobody wants to see that because you're supposed to always like be put together when you show up. And it's like, that's not.

Melissa Llarena (03:27.598)

Girlfriend we all know that when we scroll when we scroll are we not in our derivatives of leggings? I heard your episode use that word for leggings. I was like hell. Yeah derivative is correct But um yeah like just imagine the user right on the other end like if you're talking to a mom There's no way on this green earth that mom has her hair perfectly done and is totally matching, right? Like we all have mismatched socks that we will go out and wear proudly as long as no one sees them. And that's the reality, right? That's the reality. But I will say that it does allude, and we could speak to this a little later, it does allude a little bit to like how much you charge for services if you're an entrepreneur. I will say there is that perception thing that is important when you're a business leader, so.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (03:52.669)

Yeah, that's true. I, yeah, for sure. And I think too, like the, maybe the crossover piece that is happening now or, and I'm sure like 12 years into social media, you've, you've seen this a lot is like, there is a line where people are authentic and, and able to show a separation of like home and work. And that, I think that's really hard to do.

Melissa Llarena (04:38.708)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (04:41.456)

I think it's really hard for people to show up like in the sweatpants and also show up there, which is why people have two separate accounts. But the people that show up all the time in that perfectly polished, like everyone, I feel like there's so much, it's like driving by an accident, right? Like you're just waiting. You're just waiting for the other shoe to drop because you know that like it's not possible. It's just not, it's not real.

Melissa Llarena (05:09.854)

Yeah, and a lot of times as moms were constantly looking for that second shoe, if we're honest about it, so forget about it falling off. We can't even find it, right? And it's funny because, you know, a lot of individuals out there, just to kind of share this perspective, and maybe this is where you'd want to go with the conversation, but a lot of individuals out there feel like it's like, you know, all or nothing, right? To kind of just touch upon the topic of this podcast. And I think that idea that it has to be all or nothing is the idea that kept me from being like, oh wait, maybe I should start my business, while my firstborn who was only six months still needs me. And under that sort of guise, when we think that it's all or nothing, oh, I have to go all in hardcore 24 seven on building a business.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (05:56.443)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (06:08.002)

or I have to go hardcore 24-7 nurturing a human being, the next generation, the next of kin, which sometimes can be a tall order. It's like, it causes you to freeze, right? And so it's interesting because I wanted to just unlock this idea that it doesn't have to be all or nothing, but I do think there has to be something.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:17.649)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (06:33.17)

And when I made the decision 12 years ago to kind of give a little bit of background, I had a corporate career for 10 years before I started my business. I started corporate, and this is really funny, before I started college. So before my freshman year, first day of school, I was already working for Chase Manhattan Bank.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:53.912)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (06:56.17)

And so I had this long corporate career. I was effectively groomed to be a C-suite at some point in my life. But I decided when I had my first born, as a lot of moms do, because your brain physically changes, so your priorities, values, and what matters to you does as well, I decided to not go back after my maternity leave.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (07:04.99)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (07:22.442)

You know, and that was after literally putting together an Excel spreadsheet of how I could work from home one day back in 2011. So this was way pre-hybrid work, way pre, you know, all these other things. And when I got that decline, like, you know, nice try- decline, I basically was like, okay, like what sacrifice am I willing to live with that is gonna help me then be a mom?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (07:32.36)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (07:51.654)

And at that point that day, I only imagined the mom's side of the house, right? Um, and, and what I had to do was in my mind, almost like say, well, am I willing to let go of a dream house? That's how I thought of it. You know, I know that I know for a fact, a lot of moms might not think about that because I see a lot of dream houses around me, but I will say that, you know, that was something that I had to make a decision around, right? And that was like the beginning of my journey of like, oh, wow, I'm no longer working for a corporation. And I know a lot of moms, millions of moms, especially post pandemic are like making the same decision for themselves, you know? 

And so for me, I tried the exclusive, only all in mom thing. And I think it was month five of my first born that I went to a friend's house and I was sitting around a lot of stay at home moms that were exclusively stay at home moms for years now, right? They weren't quite as fresh like myself in that identity. And I remember they were around the TV and looking at the TV and talking about celebrities and talking about new stuff that to me personally, I remember saying to myself in my mind, I was like, “oh no. I cannot be this way.” Like it just felt incongruent, unnatural, and not what I want for my life. Not to say I'm like this ego-driven person, but in my mind, in my mind, I'd rather do things in my life, right, that might be worthy of being on TV, quote unquote, not because I'm famous, but because I made an impact, than watching other people live their dreams and me, you know, not fulfilling the potential that I thought I would be able to fulfill if I continued along the path of career building and significance finding, which a lot of it is that. And that was the day that I decided to open up my coaching practice. And the first client I had, just to kind of show you how I rocked this whole like, and identity thing,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (09:58.312)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (10:12.61)

The first client I had, I'm gonna take you to Le Pan Quilleteen in Midtown Manhattan in New York City in 2011. This was the day I met up with my first prospective client and his wife. I took my first born in my Ergo baby carrier on my chest, right? We walked through Grand Central, blah blah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:30.628)

Yes.

Melissa Llarena (10:39.062)

And I pitched myself. The options were very, very simple. It was like three options. You could have me for this period of time, that period of time, or this period of time. The numbers all ended in zeros. I did not know what I was doing, but I knew that I could help this investment banker land a job in investment banking. And when I went and I basically passed my baby to this person's wife who was there as well, I was like, hey, can you hold on to my son while I’m you know, having this business conversation with your husband, this woman came to me about maybe 20 seconds later and she was like, oh my gosh, Melissa, something smells. Something smells. That was a diaper blowout, my friends. A diaper blowout, Midtown Manhattan, everybody's eating lunch, looking all lovely. And I was in the middle of a sales conversation and I had to resolve that, of course.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (11:24.904)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (11:36.246)

but I still got the sale and that's how my business began.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (11:42.278)

I love it.

Melissa Llarena (12:10.37)

Yep, so you can do it. You can do it. And the whole thing is, I think what's important is, how do you want to do it? And so when I was thinking about, some of your former episodes, Dr. Ashley, and I was thinking about the idea behind this podcast, as I heard it, I was like, all right, so how would I advise someone who might be a newer mom, let's say, with younger kids? Because to your point, there is a difference.

Here's the difference. For me, when I would talk to moms that had adult children, they would look at me and they would be like, wow, you're in the thick of it. My kids right now, so I have a singleton, and if any mom of multiple is out there, you know why I said that. So I have a singleton who is 12. That was that diaper blowout situation. Exactly. Famous. It's in my book, Fertile Imagination. 

Dr. Ashley Blackington (12:20.936)

Mm-hmm. Famous!

Melissa Llarena (12:40.27)

Which I wrote, by the way, about that moment. Then I have identical twins who are 10 years old and to be very clear Identical twins are like the magic of fertility. This is not something you anticipate or plan So it was a surprise, you know about two and a half years after my firstborn During which time I still had my business all of this to say I had to make different choices along the way in terms of how I wanted to bring some sort of cohesion to my company vision. I had to be mindful of the seasons of motherhood. So I'll give you an example. Right now, so last year I wrote a book. It became a number one Amazon bestseller in motherhood and women in business. So I'm so excited about that. So excited.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (13:14.472)

I'd love it.

Melissa Llarena (13:34.254)

I decided, it's called Fertile Imagination, a guide for stretching every mom's superpower for maximum impact. I decided, because I have a podcast called Unimaginable Wellness, I decided to take a lot of the conversations that I've had with podcast guests from around the world and basically figure out how were they inventive or how did they use creative thinking in order to further their career, build their business, or explore their interests, right? The things that light them up like Christmas trees or Hanukkah candles or however you celebrate, you know? And so for me, when I interviewed these people, right? So it was about 25 people I interviewed. Everything was done on Zoom. Here's the thing, of course, if I didn't have children and if I wasn't in the thick of it, I could get on a plane and fly to California and I could have interviewed at least like five of my podcast guests. But again, you've got to think what's possible for you? What's your reality? So it was done virtually. At the same time, when I decided to put together my book, you know what prompted that? One day, this was during the pandemic and me and my family, we globally actually went, we did a relocation.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (14:37.064)

Yeah?

Melissa Llarena (14:57.834)

So we did a relocation from Connecticut in the United States. We already had three children. We had just bought a house. We had just gotten a Honda Odyssey for any minivan fans right there. Hot cars, hot wheels, right? And we decided to go on a family adventure. This was not a requirement. I wanna be clear. Go move to Australia right before pandemic. Pandemic hits. I still have my coaching practice, right? But this season of motherhood for me, was one where extraordinary circumstances, right? Like childcare closed, we had 106 days of lockdowns in Sydney, Australia. So that meant I had to make a choice. I had a coaching practice, I was still working with people in the United States, so that meant I was getting up at the wee hours of the day from an Australia perspective. But on top of that, I also needed to figure out, okay, I'm getting on these sales calls, right? That's part of how I do business in terms of my coaching programs. I'm getting on these sales calls. If I get rejected on a sales call, is that going to be a happy mommy or a deflated or like frustrated mommy who can then be this like amazing homeschool teacher all of a sudden because of the pandemic, right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:16.101)

Right.

Melissa Llarena (16:20.474)

And I think a lot of us had to figure out our own way of still making progress towards our dreams, but editing it based on the season that we were in. And this was not a self-inflicted season, this was a global pandemic. But that was for me an opportunity to shift the way that I approached my business goals. I said, you know, let me write the book that I've always wanted to write. Why is that? Because for me, I could do it on my own time.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:32.488)

Right.

Melissa Llarena (16:49.182)

Right? So I was there still homeschooling my children, my three children, who have major sibling rivalry going on, by the way. Um, but I was able to do it from a place of quasi-calm. I'm not gonna say calm, I'm not gonna lie. Quasi-calm, right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (17:05.84)

Right? There were sweatpants. Ha ha ha.

Melissa Llarena (17:09.43)

Sweat pants, girl, like, you know, it was just, it was a moment, right, for the entire universe. But that is then a choice that I made. I was like, well, okay, this is my season, this is the season that I'm in. This is the reality. And in my book, Fertile Imagination, I interviewed Suzy Batiste, who is the inventor behind Poo-Pourri, and she herself said that, you know, step one is accepting the struggles that exist in life.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (17:22.609)

Right.

Melissa Llarena (17:37.354)

You know, we would be nuts to think that we're not gonna struggle if every single human before us has struggled. So I had to accept, okay, this is what I can do, but I knew that I needed to keep going. And that's the clincher right there. It's like, yeah, you don't have to go all in. But what I do suggest you do if you're a mom who wants to stay plugged into the world of Commerce business and feel that sense of security that okay if I had to I could go make money I would say at least keep it going from a I always compare it to like an EKG an electrocardiogram, right? It's like you don't want a flat line you want to have you want to have Yeah, you need to have a little beats.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:18.269)

Mm-hmm. You want a few beats!

Melissa Llarena (18:31.286)

Maybe you're in a coma when it's like that season of like breastfeeding. Let me tell you, anyone that's listening that has twins, I tandem nursed for 365 days exclusively. That season of motherhood, that was my coma season of business. You can see it in my Google Analytics, it's quite hilarious. My Google Analytics right now can tell you when I was totally switched on versus when I had to let go a bit and edit my definition of success for the moment.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:46.33)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (18:59.518)

And so, you know, for every mom out there, it's interesting because when you're looking at social media to the earlier point, or when you're looking at all of these amazing content creators, business builders, you know, VC-backed entrepreneurs and founders, what you will see from a distance is continuous activity, right, whether it's continuous activity that they're like networking to get capital or money, or continuous activity in that, you know, their brand is always, you know, seen. There's that visibility thing, right? What's important to understand is that, yeah, a mom can do that too. However, you've got to be mindful of the fact that you're going to have to approach the same ambition in a different way. And to some point, to the point that we were talking about before we started recording,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (19:35.123)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (19:56.614)

Is there change in an evolution and iterations pertaining to how you approach your business or your careers? But on top of that, our children's needs also change. On top of that, if you have a partner, that relationship and that person also changes. So there's a lot that has to be considered, which means that we just have to be more nimble and we have to use our creative thinking.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (20:09.768)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (20:26.642)

in a way that might be a little bit more advanced than other people, which is why I wrote my book, Fertile Imagination. It's really around using this ability to think resourcefully, creatively, to think beyond what we see, right? But like to take advantage of the fact that, you know, you might get a virtual assistant in a whole other time zone because maybe while you're not sleeping, notice I didn't lie and say sleeping. While you're not sleeping, right? At least someone else can be whatever, copying and pasting your email templates, you know? And then you wake up and then they hand it off to you. So there's an elegance to how a mom approaches her ambitions beyond being a mom, you know, that I think is a competitive edge in the sense that it's possible. It's possible and we can do it.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:04.913)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (21:25.782)

But step one is do you wanna do it? Because I'm not gonna tell you that it's a walk in the park. Like do you wanna do? You know what I mean?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:31.024)

Right. Yeah, I think that is, you know, the important part is we get the idea of making choices and the idea of having choices and the idea that like there is always a choice gets sold as simplicity. It's not like, like people when stuff gets marketed out, it's like you are a mom and you don't want to go back to your corporate career or you don't want to go back to this, this and this. All you have to do is do this. But to your point is it's not a simple swap, but is the complexity, is the pivoting, is the like deep end of the wave pool feeling that is starting a business, launching a business, regardless of whether or not you have a family, is that feeling and the outcome of that, you know pushing the ball up the hill day after day after day if at the end of the line you're gonna get to that place that you wanna be the one where you don't have the corporate schedule where you don't have the sorry you can't come back one day remotely. You have to come back you have to come back fifty hours a week you have to do all of these things we tell you what to do i think that what happens in motherhood because it is such a profound shift, it is such a profound change, is that it's things that were maybe gray or fuzzy become very defined. And so having the experience and the perspective of talking with, you know, talking when you talk with older moms and they're like, you know, they remember what it's like when everything is really, you know, new and swirly and like, you're trying to figure out where your feet are and you're trying to figure out how to change a diaper in a restaurant that has no, it's not set up for you, which is a whole other thing, right?

Melissa Llarena (23:39.862)

Hehehe

Dr. Ashley Blackington (23:52.12)

You can come in here and eat, but we're not set up for you to have children, so what are you doing, right? But when you have that fresh, I had a baby, I need to start a business, I wanna do this stuff, I feel like there's so many, opportunities in there to say, okay, I don't like the like crap salad that I apparently ordered when I decided to make this choice. Instead of taking the crap salad, I am going to say, you know what, I'm just going to, I'm going to go to the meeting. I don't have childcare. I don't have, this isn't an option. I'm exclusively breastfeeding. My kid won't take a bottle. My kid, all of this stuff. I'm just going to go. And I think that it's important for people to hear the stories of when that works. I think it's so important for people to think, people that are thinking like, oh, I had a baby and this is not working in the way that I want it to now, what am I supposed to do? And I think that's where things start to divide, right? Where people are like, this is not what I envisioned, this is not what I signed up for vs. This is not what I envisioned, this is not what I signed up for, but I have the agency over these things. And yes, it's going to be really hard because the world is not set up for me to want both. Unfortunately, the world is set up for me to have children have this epiphany that like I have no aspirations outside of all of these things and that I will continue to raise this generation.

Melissa Llarena (25:09.673)

I'm going to turn it over to you. So, I'm going to turn it over to you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (25:16.112)

However, you are a whole person outside of your role of motherhood and wanting to have those things and those pieces are what people need to see. It's that great elephant walk of generational entrepreneurship in women. Like somebody who has a baby who is feeling like WTF just happened to my life, grabs your book on Amazon and is like, all right, like it's like creating these like breaks in the wave to, it’s that notion of like, if you see it, you can be it. Like there might've been somebody in the restaurant who's like that day, who's like, this lady came in and pitched this guy in this like $4,000 suit and his wife in her like pearls and all that. I mean, I'm totally making it up, but like these people come in like all put together and this lady comes in and her kid has like this blowout and she's like, you need to hold the baby. I gotta just do this. Also like the most New York thing ever.

Melissa Llarena (26:14.866)

I'm a New Yorker, so yeah. We just go with it, you know, like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (26:19.304)

Exactly, exactly. But like the idea of maybe somebody who's sitting in that restaurant that day, who is pregnant and is like, I'm not gonna be able to do this. What am I doing? And then somebody comes in and they're like, oh damn, that's right. I remember exactly who the hell I am. I remember that I am going to do the thing that I'm gonna do. And is it gonna be easy? No, like not at all. Maybe it is. There's always that, right? Fingers crossed that there's some sort of breakthrough, but this idea that like, the more this happens and the more it's talked about and the more it's out there that like, there is a person who is latched to this child, the better off we're going to be moving forward in generations of motherhood.

Melissa Llarena (27:02.926)

Absolutely, and I think, you know, what's interesting, and as I slice the world in this way, just because, you know, the first 12 years of my coaching practice were really focused on women leaders, right, that were within organizations, right, so I was helping them resell themselves, essentially, into corporate organizations, getting all the way to the top of the ladders, and a lot of them had children. And the other side of the world, as I see it, is someone who decides to just like, leave an organization and feel so confident that she could sell herself and it's just her on the business card. There is no 150 year old brand behind her and SWAT team of data people. So when I think about both sides of this, I think what's important is that, let's say you become a mom or you're already a mom and maybe you had a second child or third child or you did the multiple things like me.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (27:44.657)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (28:00.598)

Not that we could like orchestrate this, but that's what I did. Yeah, it's like I wanted to have the fullest expression of life and so yeah, I'm having my own version of that. But what I will say is this, let's imagine that you start hiding the fact that you're a mom, right? You start hiding the fact that, okay, I have to go and take my kid because they have an ear infection or whatever. Not to say you need to disclose that at all in any way. However,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (28:00.637)

Yes.

Melissa Llarena (28:28.51)

Let's say you just start hiding that you're a mom. Here's what I wanna say to you, whether you're working for someone or you work for yourself. What we have as moms is finite energy. If you are deciding to start suppressing who you are, what you have to do, and the way that you think, you are tapping into that finite energy that is better used to go full force, however that might be, given the season of motherhood towards your ambition, towards your goals, towards your business building, and that is a choice. But I think moms, we need to understand that sometimes we do it to ourselves. Here's why. Right now, I'm coaching individuals who have businesses and I'm helping them strategically network. Because as moms, we don't have time for the traditional happy hours and all that garbage, right? What we do have time for is real conversations with human beings, right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:19.868)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (29:24.526)

who can help us and we can help them. And that's what I help my clients do for their business as fast as humanly possible. And here's the thing, let's just imagine that you're trying to approach someone and you are not sharing the fact that you're a mom, but you just came back from some sort of epic sporting event where you lost your voice because you were screaming because your son or your daughter or whatever was gonna go, they did a goal, right? It's like that kid, like me who would have never done a goal, but if I did a goal, my mom would have no voice, right? Let's say you don't say that and you're there and you're just like, you know, that voice or whatever. That's a missed opportunity. It's a missed opportunity.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:58.248)

Yeah

Melissa Llarena (30:16.178)

Let me explain why. I know having been coached by so many like multimillionaires and billionaires, I know as an example that these dads. If they went to an event like that and they show up to like a pitch or something, I know that they will say that. They'll say something like, I just came from my kids' sporting event and oh my god, pardon my voice. And you know why they'll say that? It's strategic. Because now that paints a picture of their character as this like passionate, involved parent, who's amazing and it breaks the ice, okay? And it also helps.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (30:35.048)

Mmm.

Melissa Llarena (30:44.866)

helps in terms of painting the depth of who they are. And I know that because I've heard that from actual dads who have actually done that in really big money conversations. So we're cutting our arm off, kind of, metaphorically, when we hide the fact that, and we are moms. Caveat there, I understand that if you are building a huge brand, as an example, and you're presenting yourself as a mom, that an investor might say, secretly because they won't air it out. “She's not committed because she's a mom.” Now here's where the truth has to really like set everybody free. Is that someone you wanna do business with because you're gonna have to keep pretending that your life is not, you know, grayish or like, you know, fluid in this way for a very long time. And back to the energy. If you're a mom who has finite energy, which yeah, we do.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (31:17.372)

Yes.

Melissa Llarena (31:42.654)

We have to just understand that we are draining ourselves by hiding all of who we are. And our whole self is valuable. I'll give you a super quick example. Let's say you have to go and deliver a pitch, right? You're a company founder. Or let's say you have to network with someone. Don't we always hear like, oh, you have to simplify your message. Make pretend you're telling it to a five-year-old. Don't we hear that like all around people are like, oh pretend you're talking to a five-year-old.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (31:52.933)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (32:10.654)

Well guess what a competitive advantage is for a mom who literally has a five-year-old at home. Hello? Yeah and guess yeah and guess what else? Our kids to the point of my book they are imagination residents. They're like the what is it imagination expert in residence. We have access to individuals depending on their ages of course.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (32:22.656)

You have your audience.

Melissa Llarena (32:40.406)

But if you look at their children's books, like that gives you a sense for creativity. But we have access to our imagination through our children, like the art of playing. So the way that I break out my book, it's in three parts. First, we're reawakening our imagination because a lot of us have our imagination sleeping and hibernating because when we've gotten our ideas, we've told our ideas, no, not now. So who's gonna wanna give you an idea when you're shoving it out of the way?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (33:05.268)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (33:08.498)

Then it's about playing with our already woken up imagination. So that means being nimble. That means being creative. That means doing wacky things sometimes, right? So Beth Comstock, who's in my book, she was the CMO of GE. You wouldn't think that there's room for playing in an organization like GE, right? I'm not going to say it's boring, but some people might think manufacturing is kind of boring. But she, you know what she would do?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (33:33.04)

Hehehehehehe

Melissa Llarena (33:37.898)

to her success as a marketer, she would keep her pulse on the trends by doing things that are so unexpected, like going to South Korea to a K-pop concert to understand what the key to loyalty might be. And then she would bring those insights back to GE. And Beth Komsak was a mom. She is a mom. So now her daughter is a lot older.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (33:50.95)

Oh my gosh.

Melissa Llarena (34:05.974)

But the whole point is that you can reawaken your imagination, play with your imagination. Your kids can be part of that equation, thereby work life integration, right? Not balance, which I think is hogwash. And then you can stretch your imagination by networking and talking to other people and sharing your ideas, writing your own book. It all depends on what you want for your life. So...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:20.328)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (34:32.918)

To your point, Dr. Ashley, let's imagine that the world is not set up for a mom's, you know, like, um, multidimensional sort of success. Let's say the world's not set up that way. You know, I think a lot of us, when we grew up and a lot of us as children, maybe our homes were not set up to raise us necessarily. And so I feel like, for anyone who's in that boat, which that was my case, I was raised by a single mom.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:54.973)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (35:01.27)

with manic depression, okay, I had to figure out how to make the world and the universe almost like bend towards what I needed it to be. Like I couldn't wait for people beyond me to like set me up for success. I had to ask for success and sometimes I had to be unreasonable, which I write about in my book in order to get what I really, really want. And that courage, that confidence of asking for what you want and need, no one is going to tell you, hey mom, go and start asking your partner to put more work in during the day, right? As far as things that might be on your list of to-dos. No one is going to say to you, hey, you should go to that networking event because that could be a really powerful conversation that you have. No one is going to.

I'll tell you one thing, no one is gonna go to your house right now if you're there washing dishes and listening to this conversation and tell you, stop, I will do the dishes for you. Right? Like, we can dream, but yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (36:14.578)

Yeah, I think yeah, and that's true. Like, I'm really glad that you said the idea about it not being like showing up as your whole self. But in when it comes to and unfortunately, I feel like it's still so true is that if you are a man in business, showing up as the like dutiful parent and the involved parent and all of that is seen as a piece that makes you whole but as a woman it's still It's still viewed as a lot It's still spoken about as a liability whether it is viewed that way or not It always comes into it always comes into that action. I will say like so for me I this podcast is a love and a joy that I have, but it is not my main business. And my main business now is at a point where Dovetail is, we've opened fundraising and we are trying to secure grants, angel, VC. I'm in the middle of that whole system and I 100% agree to the point of the networking stuff.

Melissa Llarena (37:08.578)

Mm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (37:32.028)

I now have people that, you know, it's like come to this event and we're holding Q and A's for this and we're doing all of that. The Q and A's, swear to God, the Q and A's every single time are scheduled for 2 p.m. My kids get out of school at 2.30 and I'm the one who picks them up. Or 4 p.m. which, I mean, if you've had a, I mean, if you have a damn dog that eats dinner at 4.30, like between 4 and 5 in a household is chaos, no matter what. Like everyone's hungry, there's people that need to get homework done, there's sports, there's all of these things. So like the idea that you have these Zoom opportunities still isn't syncing up with the people that need these opportunities going down the line. And it's still like, I have Zoom calls where I'm meeting with potential investors and my kid is naked in the doorway and I'm like, excuse me.

And I've just started to tell people this. I'm like, my kid is one, I don't tell them my kid is naked because none of their business. However, you know, when my kid's like doing this, I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. You know, I'm like, eh. But it's that like, because of Zoom, we can't fight the spillover anymore. And so it's that idea of like, just go with it.

Melissa Llarena (38:40.874)

You have to have a straight face. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (39:00.86)

And the more that I speak with people, when it's outside of those like two o'clock or four o'clock or whatever, during the day when my kids are home with me or someone's home sick or whatever, I have noticed 100% of the time when I say, one of my kids is home sick from school today or whatever, like if somebody comes in, 100% of the time, the person on the other end of the phone either understands because pandemic, Zoom, all of that craziness, or they say, Oh my God, me too. This is what's going on in my life. And then there is another level of rapport and seeing that person and them seeing you as like, I may be pitching you for a ton of money. However, at the end of the day, I'm sitting in my office in my home and you are sitting in your office in your home and really we're both thinking about the fact that our kid has a fever and.

Melissa Llarena (39:34.997)

Build rapport right there.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (39:57.82)

when did I give them Tylenol and how much have they had to drink and like, you know, all of that stuff. And so I do appreciate that Zoom has made it harder to separate, but it's also made it better because you can't separate. So those things are coming into play.

Melissa Llarena (40:14.134)

Yeah, let me ask you a question. So these Q&A sessions with these people, is it just one person at two o'clock, let's say that you would have a Q&A with, or would it be like a whole panel on the other side? What's the setup so I could help you?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (40:28.28)

Yeah, a lot of times it is the, like it'll be, there's a Q&A that was one about grant funding and it's two people that run this Q&A and, you know, so it's that there's another one that I believe it might even be today, but it's sort of like lived experience of participating in like this accelerator or successful applications for our program, like our startup program.

Melissa Llarena (40:41.102)

Wow.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (40:58.456)

and how all of that works. So it's like, it's really, so many of these things are people that are trying to get into this system. And yeah, it's just, so it's still coming, but it's getting better. But you know.

Melissa Llarena (41:09.168)

Okay. So let's problem solve. So I don't want you to miss an opportunity. So OK, so what's the next session, the next Q&A session that you're looking to participate in that right now has a conflict? Can you tell me about that?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (41:25.908)

I have one today. And so this is, I will tell you that, so it's at noon and my youngest is four and he gets out of preschool at 12.30. And so I have already decided that I basically am going to show up, not basically, I'm going to show up, see if I can get in the beginning of the queue and then say, I have school pickup. I'm interested in this.

Melissa Llarena (41:49.058)

Okay, hold on. So here's my question. So are these Q&As generally recorded? Yes or no?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (41:57.645)

Some are, some are not. It depends.

Melissa Llarena (42:00.486)

Okay, do you have the names of the people that are hosting these Q&As ahead of time?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:07.352)

Uh, yeah, usually. Usually the name, but not necessarily contact info. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (42:11.298)

but you have their name, first and last name? Okay, so in terms of that scenario, because for example, my whole thing is the following. First of all, you have a platform. This podcast here could be a great opportunity for you to have your own Q&A on your own time and stroke ego at the same time, right? So that's step one. And that's how for me, when I think about using my fertile imagination, which is you know, this ability to think about things that maybe other moms have not done before, but I wanna go full force towards. That's how I've leveraged my podcast. So I'll give you an example. Let's just imagine there was an event going on. There is, there's Mom 2.0, which is a conference that's being held very soon. There's a slew of speakers. I can see their first name and their last name. Nowhere on that website do I see email addresses. So what did I do before attending this event? Cause it hasn't happened yet.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:44.744)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (43:07.158)

I decided to like look at those speakers and identify, okay, who's a bullseye target that they have a podcast and they talk about motherhood and entrepreneurship as an example. Who's a, I'm calling it a spoke or something, someone that's not like center, but just kind of like could lead me in a direction closer to what I need answered in my mind. And so I have before this event.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:18.312)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (43:32.242)

I have invited them on my podcast. They're already live. So if you go to unimaginable wellness, you'll see like Kanika is a podcast guest. She was like a journalist and she was a speaker, right? So I already had her on my podcast. Jessica Leahy, I just had her on my podcast talking about over parenting. That's how I take advantage of the fact that I see your name and I can find you. So either I find you on LinkedIn and I pre-connect with you so that this way we're connected before we meet in person or I do or do not have the opportunity to attend the Q&A. And I also think to myself, if I had a chance to ask him anything based on my immediate need, what would it be? So you need to have your list of questions already predetermined. So let's say you have two questions, right? Are you willing to give me $50 million? I'm making it up.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:59.56)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (44:24.662)

I'm not saying you say that at first glance, but you gotta think to yourself, like what do you really need to know? And when, before this event happens, you email them and you say, hey, you know, full transparency, I might be in and out, I have whatever responsibilities, it doesn't really matter what they are to that person. And you could say, these are the questions that if I could attend and be fully present, I would love to have an opportunity to ask you, you know?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (44:25.149)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (44:51.326)

You can email me back your responses, or maybe I have you on my podcast, and during that time, we could really explore these ideas with greater detail, and I could promote what you're doing. And that's gonna get you that relationship going in a way that's way better than just a Q&A session. And it makes your podcast very strategic, right? So we've gotta leverage our platform as moms. And a lot of times, we don't realize that, even if you don't have a podcast,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (44:57.352)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:09.382)

Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (45:19.55)

Most people can do like an IGTV live, right? That's like free, right? Another side of it is, and it's funny because I'm doing this in a nine week group coaching program for strategic networking. I'm literally coming up with all the ways as a mom, irrespective if I was abroad in Australia and I had to talk to people in the US or irrespective if I was writing a book and I had never done so, I'm coming up with a list of all the ways that I have.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:23.004)

Mm.

Melissa Llarena (45:49.038)

Pre-networking event, networked. During, networked. And post, networked. Whether it's me joining a Slack after the fact of the people that attended that Q&A, or it was me introducing myself before the Q&A in the Facebook group that a lot of these events tend to have before events. Where there's a will, there's a way. And if you're a mom, you have used that skill, right? In order to...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (46:01.458)

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Llarena (46:17.566)

assemble like a team of specialists for a child that has different learning abilities. You have used that skill to figure out the best school, the best logistics, the best childcare solution. So we're just using that transferable skill for, okay, I'm going to figure this out. If this is a Q&A where the people are there and they have information that's going to like make my life easier, great. That's at that time and it's going to be complicated. It doesn't matter. Let me figure out how to get on their radar and forge a deeper relationship and ask them exactly what I need, you know, and give them in return visibility. So that's a lot of core of how I have built my practice over the last 12 years, and I've gotten people like Gary Vaynerchuk on my podcast with millions of people going after him. You know what I mean? So that's the key.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (46:50.97)

Yeah, I think too, the important part is like, I feel like oftentimes when it comes to trying to arrange something and trying to figure out something like if your kid needed something, you would figure out if you needed to get in touch with this person, you would pursue all of the avenues that you needed. But when it comes to doing it for yourself, there's an opportunity there to reflect and say, why wouldn't I do this for myself if I would do this for all of these other people that I share a space with?

Melissa Llarena (47:44.362)

Yeah, and the onus is on us. Gotta be honest, Dr. Ashley, the onus is on us. Like any listener right now who's saying to herself, oh, I don't know the right people, I don't have the connection, I feel irrelevant, maybe I don't wanna go back because, I don't know, the bells and whistles of whatever social media.

Like you just have to like, you know, really sit down and ask yourself almost these self-reflective questions. Kind of like, okay, wait a minute. What is it that I'm not doing that I know that I should be doing, but I'm not doing it because I feel all sort of funny ways. You know, there's these questions that we need to ask ourselves. A lot of which I have in my book, Fertile Imagination, because for me,

The art of asking the right question, I mean, that's like more than 50% of getting the right answer, right? So you have to be very strategic in what you ask. So it's the right people, the right conversations, entering the right doors so that this way, the opportunities that are meant for you and that you want are available to you. But yeah, it's a question of how badly do you want it? Like you've got a choice, right? Anyone that's listening right now, like you have a choice.

Right, either you want it or you don't want it. And if you don't want it, heck yeah, it's totally fine. We don't all need to want, you know, whatever, like an orange cyber truck, you know what I mean? Like we don't all. Not at all, not at all. And that's fine. But if you've decided for yourself, you want it, replace it with whatever it is that you have in your heart as an ambition, then you yourself are going to have to like, you know.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (49:08.328)

We don't all want the same list. Yeah.

Melissa Llarena (49:24.606)

make it happen. It's like getting our hair done. To this day, my husband, my children, my mom, no one has made the appointment for me to get my hair done. Like it's just, it's never happened. Like I would love it, but no one is going to do it but me. Like, you know, that's just like my truth.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (49:38.985)

I love it. Well, so for all of the people that are listening who are now like, oh my God, I need to call this woman because I have this thing and I want to do this and I'm not really sure and I don't really like understand all of the ins and outs of this stuff. And oh, by the way, anyone who changes the diaper blowout in the middle of a crazy like lunch rush and meeting and all that stuff is a lady that I want to be in my corner. How do people connect with you and have and all of all of those parts of it?

Melissa Llarena (50:12.55)

100%. So in terms of connecting with me, go to fertileideas.com. On that website, I have, just for you guys, I have like an actual playbook, how to turn a contact into a connection. So if you want to strategically network and you are a mom, founder, entrepreneur, or creator, go to the website, take the book. I also just released on my podcast, depending on when this airs an elevator pitch example, a framework. It's just like mad libs from when we were kids, fill in the blank. And I also make it specific for a mom. So that's the truth. I believe that as moms, we have power that can help us even do our quote unquote jobs.

So we've got to reveal some of these superpowers because no one's going to guess them. But go to fertileideas.com. You can grab also a free chapter from my book, Fertile Imagination, A Guide for Stretching Every Mom's Superpower for Maximum Impact. And fertileideas.com, you can also take a quiz if you feel stuck in your business. So if you're a mom, you're stuck in business, take the quiz.

On Instagram, it's my first and last name, at Melissa Larina, I'm sure in the show notes you could see how it's spelled, but FertileIdeas.com is your central place for a mom entrepreneur who wants to feel relevant and light up like a Christmas tree or Hanukkah candles.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (51:31.549)

I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. This was this was awesome. I have I have some emails to write!

Melissa Llarena (51:49.526)

Get to it. Thank you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (51:50.972)

Right? Thanks.