Full Episode Transcript

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:02)

All right. Hello and welcome back to the and both podcast. I am here today with Christina Bogatsky. I hope I said that right. 

Christina Bogatsky (00:10)

Perfect.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00.12)

Yes. Okay. Awesome. I have one of those like super common last names that people are still like, Hey, how do you spell that? And I'm like, I can't, I cannot. Um, so I do not want to ever butcher someone's name because I've had the name Ashley butchered 27 different ways. So it's like, it is.

Christina Bogatsky (00:27)

That's impressive. I have to say that's really impressive.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:30)

It is. So welcome. I am so excited that you're here and I would love for you to start off and just talk a little bit about yourself, what you do. You have a business, you have children, all of all of that. And then we'll get into the and both part of it after.

Christina Bogatsky (00:50)

The good stuff. Ashley, thank you so much for hosting me. This is exciting. I've been looking forward to this. And I just, I wanna say I'm so impressed with what you've built and just in the research that I've done, I've listened to your episodes so far between what you're doing with Dovetail and creating this forum to bring forth the conversations that you have so far and the many that you will, is so important. So I just got chills saying that because it's time, it's time. And so it's truly an honor to be here. And it's very timely. You know, I've listened to your past couple of conversations and there was so much nodding and there's just so much that, you know, we can kind of circle back to. 

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:17)

Oh, thank you. 

Christina Bogatsky (01:19)

But in the way of intro, so I'm Christina Bogatsky. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm originally from San Francisco. I live just outside of the city now with my two children and my partner. My kids are three, oh, I'm sorry. I'm used to saying three and five. My older one is, Kira is five years old. My daughter's five. And my younger one, Benji, just turned four. So we are just, we've gotten into the school groove and that has been just such, I mean, myriad of transformations and transitions, but it's been really nice. And so my background… I'm 42. I've worked in corporate settings for most of my career for almost two decades prior to starting a family. My background is primarily in tech and digital media with a bit of finance. So I sort of bookended my corporate experience with, I started in finance. I still work very part-time in venture capital, but I run my coaching practice, which is totally fine coaching. 

And I know we're going to get into this because it's really my journey into and through motherhood that brought me to this kind of work. Because, wow, the transformation and the personal transition that took place when I started my family was, I think for many of us, just unforeseen. Even though we come into parenthood and we come into our family structures in very many different ways. And those of us who give birth have those nine months to sort of would prepare whatever that looks like, I did not see it coming. And so the personal shift and call it identity shock, you know, that I faced and that I'm very much still in, really inspired me to do the kind of work now. 

And so I think to just provide just at a very high level, I mostly work with women. My work is not isolated to just women, but anyone going through a transition who is experiencing stuckness or overwhelm, my goal is to help people get through that period, but in a way that allows them to really embrace today, the moment. Because what I found myself, when I became a mom, I looked back, I did a ton of reflection on the kind of work that I did, and I'm happy to talk about because I pivoted pretty drastically. And I thought about what it is that gives me fulfillment. But anyway, I realized that there's just so magic in the journey and I spent so much of my time historically thinking about the end goal and neglecting and forgetting about that beautiful process, which is really where I believe the magic is. So that's what I do today. So I'm a life coach and I have a podcast where I really want to surface the conversations of becoming or unbecoming and just the transformation and the inspiration that people find and how they get themselves to where they want to be. And so that's sort of my goal in the conversations that I share through my Totally Fine Navigating Life with Love podcast.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (04:57)

That's awesome. I love that. I love the, you know, I really resonate with the idea that I think so much of, especially when you're in the thick of it, like the early, early part of motherhood is like, I just have to get to the next thing, right? Because like that, that becomes your like survival pattern is like, I, you know, some days it's like, I have to get to lunch, I have to get to dinner, I have to get to bedtime. And like, you miss, you end up just sort of fast forwarding so much of

the present just to try and make it to the next thing for the purpose of making it to the next thing and the next thing. And you get stuck in these, I don't know, it's like this ungreased cog of like, we have to like, eh, and move on and move on and move on.

Christina Bogatsky (05:51)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (05:57)

And I like the idea of like not shying away from what you have going on and not trying to find a faster way through it, but a way to like, all right, we're here. This is where we are now, as we work our way through, you know, don't forget to, it's that stop and smell the roses without it being, without it being obnoxious and, I can't think of the word right now because we're talking about this, but it's like a diminutive thing where you just say like, don't worry, sweetie, tomorrow will be better. Like, we're not saying that. You're saying like, right now is hard and it's hard, but that doesn't mean that there isn't good parts of it.

Christina Bogatsky (06:06)

Yes. Right. I couldn't agree more. And I think the flip side of that, where I really had to train myself because I've always been a goal setter and goal reacher. And when I stopped working for about 18 months, just before my son was born, my younger one, and once I started, once I created space and I had time away from my old life, everything, everything shifted within me. And I'm very much still in that transition. Perhaps it'll never end. Hopefully it's a lifelong evolution. But I had to check myself because I realized my children punctuate time so dramatically, right? I mean, all of a sudden, it's like, I know you have your children between three and 10 years old. Like, you have four. Oh my gosh, I bow down. And my two have me on my knees.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (07:14)

Hahaha

Christina Bogatsky (07:25)

But it's, you know, they punctuate time so poignantly. And as someone who's always been on the go and has always been focused on the end state, I very consciously have been in this practice of, I mean, hugging and smelling my son. Or like right now I have a really annoying commute home from pickup, and it's like, we're sitting in traffic and it's just really annoying. That's changing soon because we're moving, but I'm thinking, how can I just like relish the beauty around me? We live in Marin County. We live in a beautiful place. How can I make this otherwise repetitive and annoying drive home, magical every day? And so it is definitely a practice, it is hard. But it's also, it's helped me to stop and just be present because that's always been a struggle for me. It's meditation historically had been a struggle and just like sitting in a yoga pose had been a struggle. And I've changed a lot over the past five years because of my journey into motherhood.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (08:00)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (08:18)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (08:22)

But I was gonna say, what was the other point? It'll come back to me. But that's been a major part of my personal journey and my personal evolution, just being able to like enjoy it. Oh, I was gonna say desperation. So I wrote a medium article about this where I had, a kid on my tit and a kid was still in diapers. And this was in the pandemic. This is the beginning of 2020, right after my son was born. And I was like, I felt physically terrible. I just, I was exhausted. I was sleep deprived. I was not in my body, but not liking my, just not in my best place. And I wrote about my journey into my fitness journey because I wanted to feel better. And so because I was so desperate when it came to what I had available to give, I was able to really focus. And so I would do like a five minute workout or a 15 minute workout.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (09:12)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (09:19)

And it was one of the greatest lessons for me in just stripping yourself of everything else and just focusing on something for like five or 15 minutes and building up these habits that end up reaping awesome results. And so desperation sounds really dark and doomed, but it really taught me that when I cut out the BS and just gave myself what I needed in that moment, whether it's like the workout or like the hugging and the smelling of my son and feeling that oxytocin rush, it's so worth it. It's so worth it. And like, I also over the summer reread Mark Manson's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Bleep. And he says like, you solve this problem, there's another one waiting. I spent most of my younger adulthood solving issues to not have issues, but then that's just not life. That is literally just, that doesn't happen. There are peaks and there are valleys.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (09:56)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (10:19)

But once you address whatever's in front of you, there's gonna be another one. And so, the quality, he talks about how the quality of our problems is what defines the quality of our life. And so anyway, I kind of rambled there, but I couldn't agree more. It's like just being able to stop and think about today and think about now. It's a conscious practice that over time, we could build into a more of a second nature practice.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:41)

For sure.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:48)

Yeah, and I think too, like, you know, there's so much of it that comes down to the pandemic, like in terms of, you know, it kind of I feel like pre pandemic, you know, we're all going along as it was because there was no like giant wake up call, there was no like, slamming of doors, closing of the country, like all of this stuff that happened. But what I think when I think about the pandemic, I think that like this at some point we were gonna get to where we were. And this created this, I mean, literal hard stop on all of that. But there's so many people that I spoke to coming out of it that were like in that similar vein of like, I was going and going for the purpose of going and going. And then when I couldn't go and go, I realized that the inertia that I had was being driven by the things I was carrying and I didn't even wanna carry these things. And that I was running past all of the things that I needed to do in order to take care of myself and all of this. It's like, I saw a thing the other day online, it was talking about like how kids in the 80s, they didn't drink out of these like water bottles and we didn't blah, blah. And like on face value, I'm like, that's so true. Like I remember water fountains and all this stuff.

Christina Bogatsky (12:13)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (12:14)

But then I think about, I go to pack my kids lunch in the morning and I look at the counter and there's my kids water bottles are there and mine's next to it. And I pack my kids water when we leave the house and I leave mine on the counter. And I'm like, why would I do that for them if I'm not gonna do that for myself? So like, why do I in a pandemic make sure that my kids are running around in the backyard and I'm doing all of these things that like, there's really no time, there's no time crunch because we're not going anywhere or doing anything.

Christina Bogatsky (12:41)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (12:42)

I need to stop and go run around in the yard and do all of these things that do fill that part up so that I can feel better, so that I do get the fresh air. It's that idea of taking care of ourselves in ways that we are able to with what we have available for time and resources in a way that mirrors what we would do for somebody else. You wouldn't treat somebody else the way that you treat yourself sometimes. I think we just sort of kick it down the road for a little while. One of the guests that I had on already, Dr. Storch, she works with people that have injuries because they ignored injuries. It's just that, I'm not there yet, so let's just carry on, carry on, carry on, and then eventually it's going to catch up to you. Everything catches up to you.

Christina Bogatsky (13:38)

Oh yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (13:38)

You know, I love the idea of starting small because I think too the other problem in the messaging is that unless you've got a personal trainer and you know, 40 hours of childcare and all of this stuff, like you're just supposed to feel bad because you're like in the grind of it versus finding ways to put these pockets of coming back to you and these pockets of taking care of you and these pockets of remembering that like, you are a person who is doing all of the things for all of the people and that you also get to be on that attendance list.

Christina Bogatsky (14:14)

Yum.

Christina Bogatsky (14:17)

I think that's so beautiful and so potent. And in your conversation with Rachel Mae, you guys talked about embodying the virtues and the pursuit of your livelihood and interests that really is what teaches our children what we would otherwise preach to them.

But that's not how they learn. We know that's not how they learn. I mean, science has demonstrated, we have mirror neurons where we actually, like they are activated, and you as an OT, like they are activated when we observe a behavior and when we repeat that same behavior, that is how those neural pathways are strengthened. And so when I went into, when I started as a parent, I think many of us do this, but I led with my default, how I was brought up and what I had been shown, what I knew. And then over the past five years, that's evolved significantly. And in that journey, I've done an immense amount of work of self-reflection and personal development. And that is a journey that I hope will never end. So you and Rachel talked about that, but also when it comes to going outside and playing with your kids, the laundry can wait. The dishes can wait. This is very hard for particularly working moms who have this insane, pun intended laundry list of shit that we need to do. And because there's always something else to do, but that's the thing, there is always something else to do. And I've had to catch myself and just think, okay, would I rather play outside with my kids and like play fetch with the dog and help have the kids get involved or like get ahead on laundry.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (15:32)

Right.

Christina Bogatsky (16:02)

I'm programmed to get ahead on laundry because there's so much overwhelm. But the overwhelm's never really, it's not what exists to be ready to be done. It's how we react to that and how we treat that load of responsibility. But by you choosing to go outside and engage with your kids, you're demonstrating to them not only that you're tending to yourself and that you value that quality time, but that they should do the same. And at the end of the day, those are the moments that are gonna be burned into their psyche, that they're gonna grow up remembering. It's those simple moments that really matter to them. I saw something on, I think it was on Instagram, and it was just, I mean, I'm gonna mess this up, but it's like a mother and her children, or child or whatever, and they're in bed, and she heard the bubble above her saying, I'm such a bad mom. We didn't do anything today, we didn't leave the house. All we did was watch TV and whatever.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:39)

Mm-hmm.

Christina Bogatsky (16:59)

And the kids bubble is my best moments are, I love cuddling with my mom in bed and just like spending time with her no matter what we're doing. These are like the best moments of my life. And that is so true. And just remembering what matters is just, it's so critical, but it's so easy to let go of.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (17:10)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (17:16)

Yeah, and it's hard to think like, cause I have a 10 year old and I have a three year old and my three year old is upset about something and my 10 year old who's now like getting ready to go into middle school and things like that, she's like, I wish I could get upset about that. Like I wish that was the only thing that was upsetting and I'm like, but for him right now, it's the same level as something that would make you feel that way. Like it's all relative, right? Like as you go through, I mean, when you're three, it's like, I can't eat all my Halloween candy for breakfast. Although I've eaten Halloween candy for breakfast for the last four days, don't tell my children. I'm like, yeah, like, well, I mean, it's gotta go somewhere, right?

Christina Bogatsky (17:50)

Hahaha.

Christina Bogatsky (17:58)

All good. This is a safe place. Oh yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:12)

And, you know, so it's that like, you know, as you get older incrementally with the stress and the exposure to the world and the things that you have, like these things get big. And then, you know, I think it's also too important to model like the weighing one for the other, you know, so like there is that idea of like, I wanna go outside and I wanna run around with my kids and I wanna go and do all of that, the fun things. But then there's also like, some days, some days the taking care of myself means when we come back in from running around and doing all those things that like, I'm not like tripping over the baskets of laundry that need to get done and stuff like that. And I think that too, what happens is like, we live in such a, there's so many hard boundaries around like what you're doing like when you're doing a good job as compared to like, you know, nothing, right? Like when you're doing a good job or when you're not doing a good job, like.

You're a good mom if you go outside and run around and play with your kids, but you're a good mom if you are doing all of these things that need to get done in the background. So it's just like, it's like trying to figure out where the balance is individually on a day-to-day basis and in that time, do you know what I mean? 

Christina Bogatsky (19:23)

Oh yeah. 100%.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (19:33)

Like, yeah, I think, and I think that's hard too, because there's so many things like when you see stuff online and when you see stuff, you know, you see other people and you talk with people. It's like, some days, some days it's like, you're all dressed up and ready to go and everyone's out the door and things are smooth sailing and you're like, man, I got this. And some days you're like, God, I hope I'm not wearing my slippers as I'm like trying to get the kids to school on time, you know, and how we have to like give ourselves some, a whole lot of like space and grace and bumpers, gentle bumpers just around.

Christina Bogatsky (20:05)

Gentle bumpers, and you've talked a bit about this, but these external stimuli and expectations.

This might sound a little crude, but we live in a world in which we're tricked into thinking that that's what matters. And we forget that it comes from within. Our ability to heal, to thrive, to be the kind of human we wanna be, it comes from within. And this goes down to like, I mean, this is like a very simple example. And like some of us have deficiencies, we need to take supplements. But really, we should be getting all of our nutrients from our food. Imagine a world in which we're getting our nutrients from our food. That applies to so many other things. Like we because we live in a consumerist society and like we're just drowning in media and ads. And I'm like a brand's biggest enemy. I'm like, whatever. I like I like you. Like, I like my things. But it's like, I'm just going to say you don't need all the fancy shit. But anyway, but going back to expectations and these standards.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:00)

Mm-hmm.

Christina Bogatsky (21:13)

I realized a few months ago, like I don't wanna be a good wife, or I don't wanna be a good mom. Like whatever that means, that's not what I wanna do. I know what I want for my children. I want my children to be kind and curious. I want them to be kind, curious, and be exposed to experiences and environments that challenge them to think critically. I don't want them to take what I say for granted. I want them to question that. When it comes to my partnership, I want that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:35)

Mm-hmm.

Christina Bogatsky (21:43)

I don't want my husband to think, oh, she's a really good wife. We had this conversation, like that's not, I don't wanna be a good wife because I'm making dinner or I'm, you know, keeping a clean house. But I went into these roles with that in mind. And then I realized like, no, it is about the type of person that I want to be in those roles and what it means for me to achieve my goal for those dynamics and for those relationships. And with my kids, it's those things that I mentioned. 

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:46)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (22:13)

And with my husband, I mean, I think that's the trickiest thing. You choose to be with someone, but the reality is we're constantly evolving organisms. Like I've changed. I'm a different woman today than he met five plus years ago for sure. I mean, my, so much about me has changed. He's changed. And so that is a very conscious, um, that is a conscious alignment that you kind of have to check in on, on a regular basis. And that's probably a whole separate conversation.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (22:23)

Yeah. Hahaha

Christina Bogatsky (22:41)

Um, but it's like, we forget and, the world wants us to forget that it is all in here. And it's very hard to do when there's all this noise. Like I recently talked about on my podcast about what I called clouding agents. And these are everything from what we ingest, like the foods, the pills, the drugs, whatever, the alcohol, clouding agents are societal norms and expectations of the standards that you're seeing around you. Like I live in Marin. I live in one of the wealthiest counties on the planet. It is really hard because, like I can ground myself, but then I'm thinking about how do I ground my children with respect to like what matters in life? And like, how do I want to shepherd their thinking and their discernment about what matters in life? But a major clouding agent is in fact our internal programming that comes from earlier life experiences and like how we've evolved

Dr. Ashley Blackington (23:31)

what's modeled for us. Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (23:33)

Yeah, exactly. And actually you mentioned when we started talking about the pandemic period and like the value of going outside and playing with your kids. I just recently read an article that it's over two years old. It's from 2021, but it was written by a London Business School professor shortly after the pandemic sort of subsided. And she's really talking about the major life transitions particularly through the lens of career shifts, but it applies to everything. And so she talks about really three phases. Like one, there's a separation. A lot of us experience, most of us experience some form of separation during the pandemic, like leading the office, like leading a job, moving. The second phase is the sort of liminal phase where it's almost like purgatory, where we're like, we're in between, we're betwixt. And the third phase is reintegration. So having separated from old habits and norms and even communities or people, relationships, like how do we reintegrate into a day-to-day, a more normalized day-to-day life, having learned all these things? And I think one very difficult thing for many of us to do is to let go of those really comfortable habits and patterns that maybe got us to a certain point, but aren't what will propel us to the next level. I thought that was really hard hitting, and it's, please go ahead.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (24:51)

Right. And that's, yeah, I mean, I think too, like the idea that like good is relative, right? Like what's good here versus what's good in another country. Like I'm from Canada. I lived, I moved here in high school. So even there's even differences between here and there. And most people think that like Canada is just like the country that lives in the attic of America. But really like the values are different on different, you know, the importance is different in different countries. And so like here, you know, there's what is good is a lot of it is influenced by what you're saying, like this super consumer type of life that we live. I was just having this conversation with my daughter, my 10 year old and saying like, you know, she's like see stuff on TV or whatever, like they don't they don't really watch a whole lot of like regular TV because the commercials, I feel like the commercials you see at like eight o'clock at night, you now see it like two o'clock in the afternoon. And I was like, whoa, that's a little heavy. Like let's, let's not. Yeah. But I was like, I was explaining her, I said, so much of what is marketed towards women is this is something that's wrong with you. Don't you feel bad about yourself by our bri our product or our solution so that you can be good.

Christina Bogatsky (26:03)

We're diving right in.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (26:21)

You can be, you can be like, doing it right, you can be all of the things that you're supposed to be. And I'm like, at the end of the day, I want you to grow up and be a good human being. Not a good girl, not a good woman, not a good wife, not a good whatever. Like if my goal, if my goal in starting my own company is to have communication and collaboration and equity in my own home space, why would I not want that for my children. That's the point, right? It's like you start these, you start, you go through this evolution and you go through this figuring yourself out when you have, when you start having a family, when you get out of your nuclear family, when you start to carry on with your life. But I just feel like totally what you're saying, it hits a gas pedal when you have a child because all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm a link in the chain. I'm not the end anymore that everyone's looking out for. Like I am a link in the chain and now this gets passed down to the next. So what do I want to be passed down for that? And it's this idea of like being good, being sweet, being nice, being all of that. And it's all this like control and things like, I mean, I could go off for hours talking about this. It's like drag soapbox out and center stage. 

Christina Bogatsky (27:38)

Me too.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (27:48)

But I think too, like where we have the capacity to make huge progress and where I wanted to have people come on from all different histories is that people that I've spoken to already on the podcast, people that I have coming up on the podcast, we all have this similar, like, I thought I knew what I was getting into. I had a child. And it's like when you go to a movie set.

You see the scene and you're like, wow, this is an old Western. And then you go behind and you're like, this is a board with a stick holding it up. Like, oh, wait a minute. This is all different than what I thought. What is really my process here? And what is my experience gonna be? And what do I want this to be like? And I think that our generation of mothers is primed ready and well on their way to creating differences fo the next generation. And it just makes me, it makes me so hopeful. And I want as many of these conversations to come to light as possible. Cause it doesn't matter what your experience is. It doesn't matter like what your career was or what your, you know, how many kids you have or all of that. I feel like there's this general through line of like, these are the realizations that I had. This is not what I want. And in all of it, it's me being on the table as well.

Christina Bogatsky (29:13)

Absolutely.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:41)

And that goes across cultures in a lot of places. I can't speak to them all, but I just think that this idea of putting ourselves on the map is where we're gonna go so that someday my sons, if they are in heterosexual relationships and they have children, and my daughters, if they decide to have children, that they do not lose sight of themselves. they do not feel like, okay, you know, like end scene, now I just service everything else around me. Or for my sons to say, okay, now this person just does all of the things and I don't, you know, we're gonna create the opportunity for equity to be the norm. Fingers crossed, every day.

Christina Bogatsky (30:05)

Yeah, fingers crossed. I think it's for both, yeah, for both gender types to witness is so critical because I have one of each. And it's almost, I think it's a little more complicated with my daughter, but I want my son to witness just as much as I want her to witness my independence. And you know why I think when, having children is a shock to the system.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (30:15)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (30:33)

And as we had talked about, and for me, like there were, there're kind of three that, well, I guess, I guess, so yeah, they're the kind of three that really came into play. Like one is circumstantial. Your logistics change. You have an additional family member who needs you. Everything's upside down. And no matter how much time you have to prepare, nothing will ever prepare you for it, right? And what it looks like for different families or for different parent figures is it's different across the board. The second shock was really, so, and I talk openly about this, but I never had this just innate biological desire to have children, which is funny because now that I have two and we're done with two, like I feel it, I'm like, ooh, babies, like we're done. But I never had that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (31:23)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (31:26)

And I honestly, and I'll speak openly about this, I wasn't sure I could get pregnant. I was engaged. I had never been pregnant, so I was like, well, maybe it'll be hard for me, or maybe I can't. So when I got pregnant with my ex-fiance, because we're not together anymore, I was surprised, and I also had just finished business school, so I had just racked up this incredible student loan debt. I was working, I was kind of like in this prime place of my career.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (31:37)

Right.

Christina Bogatsky (31:54)

And then I got pregnant and it was a, that was a real shock to my system. But funny enough, like when I got pregnant, even though I never, I wasn't like really wanting it, like I knew I was gonna have my child. Like there wasn't even a question. Like I was gonna do everything I wanted. I wanted her. And so there was that shock. But then the third and probably the most potent one that continues to this day is that, that transformation really like challenged my place in the world as I'd known it. And I had always been Christina at this company who does this job. Christina with this title and I make this much money. And when I had kids, even before I left the workforce, it didn't matter to me anymore. And I realized, oh my God, I placed all this capital and all this value in roles that I played, things that I did that didn't really matter that much to me, that don't really matter to me that much now. And so I've thought and talked a lot about how if I didn't have children, I would have been very happy going on in the roles that I had, living the life. I was traveling all over the world and like just, it was so fabulous and it was fun.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (32:52)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (33:16)

But my definition of what fabulous and fun are, have totally changed because I've stripped myself of so much. And I stopped drinking like over a year ago because I wanted to get closer to my inner truth. And I realized that alcohol for me is a blocking agent or a clouding agent. It just, it doesn't allow me to go through whatever I'm supposed to feel and experience. And so I joke, I'm like, yeah, I could have like stayed, taking Luxapro, drinking alcohol, and like, risen through certain tech, big tech ranks and it would have been fine. But it wouldn't have been true to my essence and are true to my inner truth. And because I want my children to see a mother who is true to herself, I have to do the work. And I think you and Rachel Mae got into this, like getting, just being true to who you're meant to be and doing the legwork. And so that's why I'm doing it. And it's not, it's what's inspired my coaching practice, my coaching work with it, which I love doing.

But I need my kids to see that. I need them to see my authentic self and I need them to see me challenging myself and asking myself the hard questions. And I'm so grateful that we live in this day and age where parenting looks different. It's different than how our mother's generation did it. And I'm so curious to see what our kids one day will once be thinking about us and how much things will have evolved by the time they're raising their families.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:17)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (34:44)

Um, so it's been, it's just incredibly profound. Just, uh, just kind of realizing like how, how you want to live your life in a way that demonstrates the right, that the values that you want to sort of instill in your children and for me, that's authenticity.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:57)

Yeah, I feel like we had exactly. I think that we had like the generation before us, it was the two generations before us, it was the, there was no change, right? That was just like the same ball got rolled down the hill and the next person picked it up and rolled it on. Then there's the generation before us, which was the emergence of the like, you know, you can do it all, be it all, do all the things, which was a total, everything got jumbled up.

Christina Bogatsky (35:13)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:26)

And then I think our generation went on momentum-wise of like, okay, we have to do all the things and be all the things, or we have to be all the things, but you don't find out until after that in order to be all the things, you have to do all the things, because there's no infrastructure, there's no nothing. It's like, well, this is your choice, right? Quote unquote, I hate that line.

Christina Bogatsky (35:46)

Ha ha ha. Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:55)

It's your choice to want to do that. It's your choice to want to have a career. It's your choice, your choice. And then I think what's happening with our generation is it's too big of a thing to try, like why? I guess we're the why generation. Like, why do I want to do that? Why do I want to do, why do I want to try and be at every PTA meeting, at every this, at every this, at every this, like why? Because I'm supposed to?

Christina Bogatsky (36:14)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (36:24)

And then again, like who tells me I'm supposed to do that? Like there's all these questions. So now we get to say, I have no desire to do that. I wrote a blog a long time ago about how I am the napkin and silverware signup parent, like out and out proud. Like it is a legitimate race for me.

Christina Bogatsky (36:27)

Yes! Hahaha

Dr. Ashley Blackington (36:52)

Like when I'm like, I know that something's coming up at school and I know that there's a signup going, I'm like- napkins and silverware, that's me. Like I, yeah, I have no desire to like, you know, roll up with the main course. None, none whatsoever. Like run in the other direction kind of situation. Exactly, because it's like, I don't wanna do that. Like I don't, I love to cook, I love to bake, I, you know, all of that stuff. But I wanna do that for my family.

Christina Bogatsky (36:53)

You’ve stopped. I love it. applause.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (37:18)

in my house. I don't want to do it so that everyone else is like, oh my god, that's so amazing. I'm like, no, the pilaf stays with me. You can have the fork.

Christina Bogatsky (37:18)

Ugh, yes. Yes! Absolutely!

Dr. Ashley Blackington (37:30)

And that's the like, you're not pouring all of yourself out all of the time to everyone. And so maybe our kids, hopefully, our kids will say, you know, I know that this is where it started and this is what I watched my mom do and this is how I watched my mom do it differently. And so it won't feel like, is it okay for me to say no to this? Do I have to get to a point where I am so overwhelmed? I am so burnt, I am so empty feeling before I say no.

Christina Bogatsky (37:36)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (38:01)

Like at the beginning, you're protecting your piece before you have to give any of it up.

Christina Bogatsky (38:02)

Yeah. Yeah, your bucket. Yeah, exactly. It's so true. With respect to school stuff, I thought about, because I did, I was like a room parent, and not a good one, and then I was a room parent coordinator, sucked at that too. And I'm like, well, you know what? My kids attend a school that goes preschool through eighth. It's a small, very sweet school, and I wanted to support them, but yeah, I think I did a pretty shitty job. But whatever, I did it.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (38:33)

You check the box.

Christina Bogatsky (38:34)

And then I realized, well, I checked the box and then I thought about like, what's my, when do I say yes and when do I say no? And for me, it's when it's gonna lead to meaningful engagement with my children in the sense that they know, like, hey, mom was around for this. So they asked me to be a root parent again, and I said no, I've been there, done that. But, it’s that for me and I'll pick and choose. I'm not going to do everything that's going to like make my kids feel like a mom was around. But I don't want to do I don't need to do behind the scenes stuff. Not interested. If I'm going to do it, it's going to it's either because it's going to lead to meaningful impact on my school's my kids experience in school or because they'll all have bonded with them or spent time with them like that's and that's it. 

But, you know, like backing up a little bit, it's these- talking about expectations and how we are raising our daughters. It's funny because I, as I've done a ton of self-reflection, I grew up in kind of an interesting, kind of juxtaposed home where my parents are Russian immigrants from South America. And so they came here very happy to have arrived in the U.S. They came to San Francisco in the sixties. So we had this weird, like, you must assimilate, but at home.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (39:50)

Mm-hmm.

Christina Bogatsky (39:51)

Like I only spoke Russian at home until, I only spoke Russian until I started school. And so there was this notion, education was always very stressed, very important, because my family on both sides had left, had lost everything fleeing communism and like only retained what degrees and knowledge they had. Right, and so that was ingrained in me and that remains a big value for me. But I found myself like,

When I think about my younger years, I was a very creative, very industrious child, and then I quickly snapped to this good girl path. I was a good girl. I followed the rules. I don't want my daughter to be a good girl. I don't. I see this wild streak and fire in her. Not obnoxiously so, but I'm always wondering, how do I preserve in her the rawness that she currently has? The challenging, the questioning, and the lack of inhibition when she sings and dances. I think it was a Dr. Becky Kennedy podcast, or maybe it was Glennon Doyle, I heard a couple years ago, everybody wants the obedient children. Who wants to have the 30-year-old who blindly follows directions, right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (40:54)

Yeah. For sure.

Christina Bogatsky (41:11)

I was the 30 year old who blindly followed directions and it didn't serve me. I don't regret my path and the choices that I made. I believe that was all divine timing and divine path. But I also sometimes wonder, did I just waste a lot of time doing stuff because I thought I had to or doing it the way that I felt I needed to? And how do I, I don't want to say give permission, but how do I put my children in an environment, in a setting where they're comfortable listening inward and challenging the rules, whatever they might be. It's hard, it's really hard.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (41:47)

Yeah, yeah, that's what I say. I say to my kids, like, you have an inside voice, right? And so your inside voice, like when something, when you're in some sort of interaction or encounter, you have an inside voice. And your inside voice, you can either listen to it, you can follow it, you can let it fly, or when you go to bed at night and you can't fall asleep, that's your inside voice going, You should have, you should have, you should have, you should have, you should have. So do you wanna feel bad? And it's not even, feel bad is not the thing. It's like, do you wanna feel that discomfort because you are stifling that? Or do you wanna feel the discomfort because you have shared what you need to share? You have stood up for yourself, you have advocated for yourself, you have whatever and somebody else is having a reaction to that, like it's a choice, right? 

Do you choose you or do you choose everybody else? And if you choose everybody else, you're never gonna sleep because when you put your head down at night, that's still there, that feeling is still there. So you can't, that's not what's meant to be held onto because I agree, I played that very good, obedient, follow the rules, do the right things, get all the grades, do all the things for a very long time. And all it did was make me mad. And it's like, well, why? Like, why am I the one who feels like garbage on the inside while everyone else is just carrying on with their life? And that's just, that's the thing. And for me, having children was like, I don't ever, same thing, I don't ever want any of my children to feel like they have to be not their authentic self, not the like full of fire and full of like thoughts, opinions, all of that stuff. For what? Like to like fill a role. Like you're not playing a part, this is your actual life. Oh, I've.

Christina Bogatsky (44:03)

Yeah, it mathematically doesn't line up. If you're holding yourself and conducting yourself and doing the things in a way that are going to get you to someone else's standard or expectation, you're never gonna feel right, because it's not gonna align with what's inside. And again, it comes back to all these stimuli and all these influences that we're regularly exposed to that are telling us what those things are, what good looks like, what success looks like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (44:32)

Mm-hmm.

Christina Bogatsky (44:32)

Um, and it's, it's a very, it's, it's very challenging. And that's where this process of re-parenting, I, I underestimate, I didn't even underestimate, I didn't, I didn't even think about the extent of re-parenting I would be doing with myself and raising my children. And, and yes, being a parent, uh, changes you. It changes you in a lot of ways. It changes your life. Um, for me, they're the catalyst. And a catalyst could be, it could be a major life change. It could be surviving a horrific disease. It could be an, whatever, it could be a very different, it could be different things. But for me, it was these children who came along and they're the catalyst for me to do this inner work, to become the person I'm supposed to be. But it's very much intertwined because I am then a better, more impactful, I would hope, more impactful, meaningful mother and thought leader for them.

Right? So it's very intertwined, but it's out there. The catalyst for me just to like look inward and question my, my values, my priorities, my motivations. And it's such a beautiful thing.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:39)

Mm-hmm. I think you've done a really great, I think that all of the examples that you've given are incredible about taking care of yourself and about the roles that you want to play and that the primary role is yourself. And it's just how you interact with the world, that you stay true to you and that you take care of you. Because really, at the end of the day, no one's gonna take care of you as an adult. That's just not how it works. People just sort of like run right over top and carry on. So setting those examples for yourself and having that clarity of like, this is what's working and this is what's not working and this is how I want to show up for myself and my family. I think that's incredible.

Christina Bogatsky (46:17)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (46:33)

Thank you for saying that. And it's critical because if you don't take care of you, who's gonna take care of your kids? It's that simple. Like, again, I could have, yeah, I could have, I could have, where's the, oh yeah, where's this help? Where's all this help I'm supposed to ask for? It's funny because I mean, I have a great relationship with my parents. I love them so much. They live close by. And, but the generational shifts are so obvious. And,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (46:40)

Right, no one's showing up. That village, right? That village that's coming along.

Christina Bogatsky (47:02)

I was going through something and she said, you need to take care of the kids and you in that order. I'm like, mom, no, I flip it. You gotta flip it because if I am not taking care of myself, I'm not my best self for them. And I don't want them to see, I mean, I don't shield them from much. It's not that they see anything. I mean, it's like my husband and I, we have very civil when we fight or argue it's civil, but I don't try to hide much from them because I want them to see reality. I don't want them to hear behind closed doors, something that might be going on or knowing that I'm in turmoil, but I'm putting on a happy face. They see through that. Kids are so smart. Kids are so tuned in, way more tuned in than society gives them credit for. I mean, now that's changing. But I told my mom, like, no, if I'm not good, I can't be good for them. And that doesn't serve them. It doesn't. And so it seems it's self-serving but not because...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (47:53)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (47:58)

It's your gas mask. You have to put yours on first, right? It's really simple.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (48:04)

I think, yeah, like, and I think too that people along the lines of underestimating kids is that I think that what people forget is that, you know, you're a kid, it's like dark at night, you're in your room and you hear like a crash. Is your first thought, yay, oh my gosh, something amazing happened, or like, oh my God, the world is ending, some, some like a tree fell in my house or somebody, you know, whatever. If you don't give the context and if you don't fill in the blanks, I would bet a lot of money kids are not ever going to fill it in with happy bunnies. Do you know what I mean? They want to be safe. Everybody wants to be safe.

Christina Bogatsky (48:49)

Thank you for saying that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (49:02)

But if there's upheaval and there's turmoil and how do I know that I'm okay? How do I know that I'm safe? How do I know this? And if you're doing like the behind closed doors, I mean, and like you said, like it's not everything, but it's providing context and however you provide that context. That doesn't mean it's like you and your husband are having a fight and you're like, all right, well, let's get the kids in here so they don't like have a wishy washy idea of what's going on. It's like, all right, let's provide context. And that's what I think.

Christina Bogatsky (49:17)

Yes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (49:29)

so many of the people that are out there now in the media that are doing good work to show this stuff. Like Dr. Becky Kennedy is talking about, is not saying, oh, you're fine. It's saying that is a really hard feeling. Let's talk about it. You know what I mean? It's like we're giving kids the credit that they have deserved for a very long time so that alongside what we're doing, we're giving them credit so that hopefully we can move the next generation forward in a way that we, they don't have to spend so much time reparenting themselves because they were parented in a way that does not need that undoing piece to happen, for sure. Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (50:15)

Yes, that's such a beautiful way of summarizing it. I could not agree more.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (50:19)

Yeah, all these kids, they just shake, they shake everything. I will say, you know, I've, like, I do have four kids and a lot of times that that's like a, like, oh my God, it's so many children. I will maintain from now until forever that zero to one is the hardest. And it was the hardest because of this adjustment.

Christina Bogatsky (50:22)

I know, right? Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (50:45)

Like, I remember I was in the hospital, I had just had my daughter and I got up to like, I think I got up to have a shower the day after or something like that. And I remember I walked into the bathroom and I was like, do I leave her out there? Like I'm in the hospital. I was like, do I leave her out there? Do I bring her in the bathroom? What do I do? I'm not really sure now. And it was like this, like the switch had flipped of like, it's not just me. Like I'm, I'm on the, I'm on the, like I'm on the hook for, for this one too. And like, how do I reorganize my life?

Christina Bogatsky (51:06)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (51:14)

And it's just, it's such a light switch moment. I did end up having a shower with the door open with her half in out. I don't know what I was thinking, but like, I mean, I wasn't thinking. Let's, let’s be honest

Christina Bogatsky (51:20)

Perfect, it's perfect. And I see it, I see it. No, you're, yeah, immediately postpartum. It's hilarious. And then with the second one, it's like, oh yeah, you don't need a crib, just, you know, fasten it by the, it's, you know, we, my husband and I joke all the time around like, first of all, our expectations, because, so I met my husband when I was pregnant with my daughter from a previous relationship, and we had all these, and we are, we're all one big happy family, but we had all these expectations. Oh, my children will only eat organic and there will be no screen time. And how quickly that changes when reality sets in. But the difference between one and two was this tremendous relief, like just knowing what matters and what doesn't, you know, it's like we cut out so much BS with the second one because really, oh, that we barely use that. So we, yeah. So it just, you get comfortable, you get comfortable, you get confident, but I agree. I mean, it's like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (51:53)

Yeah.

Christina Bogatsky (52:14)

That tethered nature that we assume as soon as they pop out or are removed from us, it is real, it's real. And I've been telling people, even when they're at school, it's not, unless I leave my place of work, which is my home primarily, because there's cleaning, there's the laundry, there's the shopping, it's like, you're tethered. You're tethered for life. And it's a beautiful connection. But yeah, that's a huge transition. Changes you forever.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (52:40)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's a beautiful, I think it's a beautiful connection when you do what needs to get done to take care of yourself. And I think that's why this is so important is like, you know, we you don't you want to be you want to be a healthy version of yourself. We all want to be a healthy version of ourselves. We all want to be content and we all want to be happy. I don't think we all want to be like dancing through a field of like flowers. Like we're not all aiming to be von Trapp's, but like you don't want to feel like garbage.

Christina Bogatsky (52:47)

Yes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (53:11)

It's that book that everyone reads in kindergarten. It's like, don't be a bucket emptier. Fill your bucket, don't tip other people's buckets, all of this. It's so simple, but it really does. I feel like that's what makes the difference. And if we fill our own bucket, whatever that looks like, if it is making sure that everything in your house feels comfortable.

Christina Bogatsky (53:17)

Oh, yes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (53:38)

if it's that the way that the systems are set up, if it is not a single sock that needs to be washed, if it is, you know, two hours of exercise, if it is your corporate career, if it is whatever it is, whatever it is that on an individual level makes you feel like you're not like a pie that's got seven slices out of eight, because you're that missing slice. If you if you bring your slice to the pie, everybody is going to be better off for it. You're going to be better off. Your family is going to be better off. Your relationships are going to be better off. So how do you make your pie piece a part of the equation?

Christina Bogatsky (54:21)

It's critical. It's critical and getting really tuned into what that looks like is everything and it's been a journey, but because I had my kids so close and we had four within short timeframe, but it's incredible. But once you figure out what that is, it's really empowering that you realize. And then I talk to my kids about it. Like they see me, they know that I work out. They see me do the things for myself and I'll tell them, like mommy needs 15 minutes and then I'll be right with you. Or they can hang out with me and watch me. I love when they watch me do yoga or Pilates because I want them to see that I'm doing something healthy for myself. And I want to help instill in them, like just the love that, and the cherishing nature within which we should treat our bodies because they’re fighting on a regular, like every second our bodies are fighting to heal and to live and just to have us in this world. And so I want to kind of pass that on to them. But I definitely talk to them about the things that I need, whether it's I had big feelings and I shouldn't have yelled or, you know, mommy's really tired and I really need to get to bed and get to rest early today. That is important because I want to, I mean, for me to convey myself as this like ready to go, like perfect mom, that's not realistic. I don't want that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (55:23)

No.

Christina Bogatsky (55:43)

Don’t expect that from me, because it's not reality.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (55:45)

Right, right, right. It's how you show your self-respect in a way that makes it possible for everything to go. So I think I'm so thankful that you came on today. I think that you have, I've read and listened to your podcasts and talking about respect and talking about how you are sharing your parts with people around you, how you speak about your, how you take care of yourself with your daughter. I was listening to your podcast last night and like, yeah, but it's important because it's not like it's not gonna come up in the media. So I would love for you to share how people can find you and how people can connect with you and all of that stuff.

Christina Bogatsky (56:26)

Oh, about vanity, my vanity, yes. Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (56:43)

I'm a little I'm a little new in the podcast world, so to speak. And so I'm like, do this thing at the end where it's like, it sounds like the thing that's supposed to sound like people like, what do you?

Christina Bogatsky (56:53)

Well, don't tell anyone else, because you're crushing it, Ashley, you're crushing it. No, truly you are. And I'm actually, I'm relatively new as well. It's just, it was time to bring certain conversations to the table. So I can be reached on Instagram at, @totallyfinecoach. And then my website, that kind of shares a bit about my background, links to my LinkedIn and my experience is yourtotallyfine.com and that's Y-O-U-R-E, totallyfine.com. I'm currently doing only one-on-one work, but I have in the making a group coaching experience that is gonna be all about decompression. It's gonna be called decompression early next year. So it has been such a joy, Ashley. It's been so fun. And as soon as I listened to your podcast, I knew that we were gonna have a very fruitful conversation. So it's been.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (57:40)

Very cool.

Christina Bogatsky (57:49)

It's been so fun and thank you so much for the opportunity.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (57:53)

Yes, and I will, I'll put up all of your links in the show notes so people can reach out and hear all about your courses or your coaching and your group when it comes online. So that'll be awesome. Yeah, thank you.

Christina Bogatsky (58:05)

Thank you so much, Ashley. So great chatting with you.