Full Episode Transcript

Dr. Ashley Blackington

All right, welcome back to the In Both podcast. I am here today with Fiona Walsh, a fellow Canadian, by way of Australia, I believe. Is that, yes. But close enough, you still count. You still count in my eyes. And so she is here, she owns a company called Fiona Walsh Consulting, and we're gonna hear about that. And then some other things about you as we go. So if you can just welcome, lovely to have you here. Yes. If you don't mind just introducing yourself, telling people a little bit about you and what you do, and yeah, start from there.

Fiona Walsh

Thank you.

Fiona Walsh

Yep. Fantastic. Well, thanks, Ashley. And as I said, my name's Fiona Walsh. I call North Vancouver, Canada home. But as you can tell from my accent, I didn't grow up in Canada. I'm originally from Melbourne, Australia. And I moved to Canada 11 years ago, almost to today. And I've got three little Canadians, I had three kids in two years. So that was a lot.

I have a seven year old who we're on the journey of neurodiversity with him. We've only just recently been diagnosed with ADHD. And then I've got identical twin girls who are five. So I had them two years apart. And yeah, it was a bumpy entrance into becoming a mum, to be honest. And I think every chapter and season of life of motherhood or parenting presents its own challenges. I think it cuts you a bit of slack in some areas and then you get lumped with new things to navigate. So when I'm not being a mom, I'm actually a leadership and mindset coach. I also do some corporate consulting. I've always worked on the people side of corporate and in the last couple of years, I decided to go out and jump into solo entrepreneurship and give it a go.

For me, I love working with women and men who are growth minded. And what I do is I work with leaders and entrepreneurs and we really go into get curious together on their inner world and what might be holding them back in their inner world, so their belief systems or their triggers when they get activated and we work on, you know, shining a light on what, what their hidden potential is and helping to unpack what might be holding them back so they can really step it up into the, you know, where they wanna be going. So be it in their job or in their life or their relationship. I say I'm in the messy middle of life, which I know is a Brene Brown term, but I certainly am. And, you know, really this working for myself has been a huge journey in its own right. I'm trying to be more heart led, try not to lead as much with my head, which when you're in corporate you lead with your head all the time. There's not much room for heart. So, and I'm also exploring more about my intuition as well, particularly since becoming a mom. And now I really see it as a really important part of who I'm going to be in this sort of next season of my life. So I'm really excited to be here and chat to you today, Ashley.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, that's awesome. So how so before the before the kids were born, you were like full on like office setting in the corporate thing and so starting your own gig before or after kids.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, so I was in corporate and had tour and then went back to corporate. And then I had the twins and I actually returned to my corporate job. Um, when the world had been in lockdown for one week. So I had 18 months leave, which as you and I know, Canada is incredibly generous now in terms of Matt leave.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm.

Fiona Walsh

And I took the 18 months for the twins. Um, and I downloaded this app called Teams, Microsoft Teams on my laptop in my bedroom, as we all did. And we had three kids in the house and re-entered the corporate world, which was a very strange chapter of living and working for all of us that has changed us all in many ways. And I was back in corporate for a couple of years, but.

It was, I was once we actually went back into the office and we were going in three days a week. That's when I realized it was really hard to balance getting into the office with three little kids and trying to do it all. Um, and you know, I am fairly type a, I was in a high performing part of the business. There was, there's no wiggle room for shorter days and things like that. And I ended up, um, burning out. So, um, I remember sitting on the couch, um, in early 2022 and we had five of us had COVID all at once. We had the family COVID which and I was like I need a break. I needed to use up some vacation time that I was saving to go back to Australia but Australia still had locked borders so it was a whole thing.

But I went to Tulum on a retreat for like five days. It was the first break I'd had since becoming a mum. And at that stage, tall was five. And it was a yoga and transformation retreat. When I got there, it was like 45 minutes of yoga and all the rest was transformation. And I truly believe that I was there for a reason. I hadn't realized until I got there, but it helped me realize just how over-committed I was in every area of my life. And...

You know, the analogy, like a house of cards, like I, we felt like constantly, like it was, we were one card away from everything, just crumbling. Um, and so it was really coming back. I worked for another like three or four months, why I got sort of clear on. What was important, what was going to be the first sort of like iteration? Cause I really called this my experiment of like life, like what is Fiona 2.0 going to look like, how are we going to create this harmony and more balance within work and family so that I can still do work that totally lights me up and makes me feel like I'm, you know, in flow and in purpose and having high impact. But it doesn't look like, you know, nine to five on the clock in corporate. And then once the kids are in bed jumping online and doing more work in the evening.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, yeah, I think there is no more like parent mom statement than I was saving my vacation time, but we all got COVID. And so there goes my vacation. It's just like, there should really just be an asterisk, right, like in the benefits package at work, it's like vacation slash parents, this is all your sick days because it's just, it's insane.

Fiona Walsh

Oh, I know. I mean, you just don't, until you become a parent, you have, I mean, it's like anything until you can walk in the shoes. It's very hard to have compassion and empathy for what it's like. Um, and when you, I do think though, um, and this was our choice, but I think if you're in a corporate setting and you have one child, if you've got like two working parents, you can.

you can make it work. I think when you add two, three, four children or even a child that has additional needs, like my son has got additional needs, I think that's when it starts to get really, really hard unless you've got like a lot of family support, which we don't. We choose to live in Canada, all of our families in Australia, or if you can afford a nanny or you know what I mean, a support person like that. But because you just don't have the backup. I mean, no disrespect to where I was working, but we weren't allowed to use our own sick days when our kids were sick. So you had to take, you had to use, I'm fairly sure they've changed that now. And a lot of corporates now are calling them like leave days. So you can use it for your own illness or your kid's illness to, or, you know, if you're a carer for an elderly person. Um, but we've still got a long, long way to go to, um, help people, and I'm not talking just about women, women or men who have caring roles outside of their work be successful in their carer role and then also if they, you know, want to be doing corporate work too.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, I always wonder like from the perspective of like when change happens, right? It's like that joke of like, if men got periods, there'd be free tampons like in every bathroom in America. And like, if men could have babies, you could get, you know, you could get services like at the gas station, you know, and it's just like, as convenient as possible. And I often wonder, especially after COVID, and the way that there was no, there was no like,

picking up the slack, like one person picking up the slack because everybody was, we were all like feet in the fire together. And I feel like that period of awareness that other people had that particularly men had about the capacity that it takes just to do that part. I wonder if there is going to be change based on their experience versus the experience of moms because we just.

Fiona Walsh

Mm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

It seems like for generations and generations, we sort of bend and flex and rise and do all of those things to like, you know, fill in the pieces or like we're like the grout in the tiles, right? It's just like make sure everything stays where it's supposed to be. And so I wonder now all of these changes are happening, especially in like more formal corporate settings. Will that continue on or will we get to a point where people are like, oh, that was just COVID? and now we can go back. Do you know what I mean?

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, I mean, 100%. I think COVID was like any major catastrophic event really created awareness for people on, I think it created awareness for people a lot on like what's important to them. Like we were separated, people were separated from loved ones and like a lot of my friends here who were on the fence about staying in Canada who were not from Canada, quite a few of them moved that it was a reckoning of what is really important to me. I think it also, I mean, and this has been pretty public. It's shone the light on the mental load or the invisible load that moms are still carrying in most households when there's two parents. And I'm not talking to when there's single parents because when I've had to single parent my kids, I'm just like hats off to those parents because it's a whole new world.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

It's a whole different gear.

Fiona Walsh

Um, yeah, whole different gear. And it's I, yeah, as I said, um, but I think one of the, I think one of the things that surprised me was that when I grew up in the nineties, when I was in high school, um, you know, we were really empowered that it was equal, equal choice, equal career opportunity, equal pay, that we were going to be the first generation. Like I went to an all girls school, it was very much, you're gonna be the first generation where you can do the career you want, you can like be the CEO, you can, you know what I mean? And it wasn't, and if you also wanna have kids, you can do that too, because we've been doing that for centuries, right? But then the narrative or the belief that we'd been told and that I kept telling myself, our thoughts become our reality, I kept telling myself, I can still do this.

The story is that I can be an executive and have this like harmonious family environment for me got to the stage where it wasn't, I was burnt out. I wasn't really happy with much because I was burnt out, you know what I mean? I was like, okay, like let's, let's start to look at that belief or that story you're telling yourself because it's not serving you right now. I remember a relative saying, oh, we all from Australia, oh, we all think you're a super mom. And I felt like an absolute imposter because I was like, I'm like holding on like to the cliff. Do you know what I mean? Every, like most days. So it was just like, yeah. And I think, so I think that, as I said, like the mental load that moms carry and in some families it's dads. I'm not like always gender norming, but

Dr. Ashley Blackington

I care sideways.

Fiona Walsh

I think when we went back to work as well, it was really hard to transition because if you'd had this reckoning, like I used to joke to my team that like peak hour, the concept of peak hour is just like, we've totally messed up society, that we all jump into cars and on public transport to get to work in these little segments of time at the start and the end of the day. And I was like, I remember joking in COVID when we're all at home.

Surely we'll never have to worry about peak hour again, because this is like a stupid thing that we created. But like, I mean, like you want to look outside right now, it's 9.30 here in Vancouver and like, you know, people are still in traffic trying to get into downtown. So we, I feel like we had some lessons, but some of the society-based lessons have not shifted or corporate lessons haven't shifted as much as what people expected.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm.

Fiona Walsh

Um, and even like some of the reasoning of why people are still being brought back into the office and expected to be in person. Um, some of them don't hold a whole lot of data or research behind them. Um, the better we're better together. Yeah. Like what does that actually mean? Um, you know what I mean? And so it's a lovely tagline. It's good on t-shirts.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.

Fiona Walsh

Um, it has, yeah, if it's like, if someone breaks down the why a hundred percent, there are types of work where in person, it really does work like, um, innovation collaboration. Before, when I was in corporate, I did design thinking those kinds of workshops. We pivoted and we did them so well on mural and Miro and mural when we were virtual, but the first few that we did back in person, like there is. Human connection in person. There's, there's, there's magic about it. And you can't have that virtually, but you also don't need to have the magic every single day and lots of tasks and work can be done remotely. And yeah, it's just about finding that balance of like, when do you need the magic and when do you not so that, you know, people have got a choice so they don't have to like, as I said, get in the car and deal with peak hour every day.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, yeah, I think that's like that. I mean, that's a great point too, is that it's not this idea of it being all or none is just so it's so old, right? Like it's so it and it comes from a time when that was an option because of all of the things that were dispelled in 2020. So if you have people that, you know, where you need to come into the office, are you going to be at your absolute creative peak 40 hours a week?

Fiona Walsh

Yes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

starting at nine and ending at five or six or whatever it is. It's not like a light switch. I do like the idea of people of that figuring out what works and what doesn't over having these sweeping policy things. There's so many things that I think the people prior to this were like, that will never change, that will never happen. But now having had those experiences, I mean, I don't even know what the statistic is, but there's empty buildings in Manhattan right now because people just haven't gone back and companies are like, well, we don't really need to keep doing it this way in order for it to be functional. In my own experience, my company is entirely remotely based. And that's the beauty of it being your own, right? I work with somebody in Illinois, I work with somebody in Connecticut, I work with someone in California and in the UK.

Fiona Walsh

Yes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

The biggest stressor in all this is figuring out what time zone I'm supposed to be in. It's just like, like even just, I mean, you and I trying to coordinate this, I was like, am I sending this to you at the right time? Okay, let's hope. But it's just that idea of like, you have to have flexibility in order to create space that people need to avoid things like burning out or avoid having these...

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, totally.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

we say like these like rigid fence around your time, right? Like, because really what happens after you have kids is your kids become those rigid borders. Like, your kids have to eat, your kids have to go to school, your kids have to your kids get sick, like all of that stuff. And it's just that idea of like, it's like playing like scheduled Jenga all day long. But I feel like that like super corporate like strict is like playing Jenga with like one less piece.

Fiona Walsh

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

And you're just like, oh my gosh, we're totally about to have the whole thing tumble down. Not good. So yeah, I'm glad that there are conversations and I hope that the change is positive sort of moving forward in that. One thing I wanted to ask you about, so I noticed this listening back to the first dozen or so episodes of the podcast that we've recorded.

Fiona Walsh

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

One of the questions that I never ask, but I think it's really important, and you already brought it up, so I'm gonna ask you, is around childcare. And I think last week or the week before I just released an episode talking about this, is it's become the new thing that we don't talk about when it comes to this idea of and both and having the space to do these things and having the capacity to have the career trajectory or to have the...

leisure pursuits or to have the time to sit and stare at a wall watching paint dry, like whatever it is you want to do, right? So like, I think that it's, it's important to talk about like childcare setup. Like you said, you guys have all of your families back in Australia, right? So how do you guys make it work?

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, totally. Yeah, so, and I will say, like having, I've got friends who are here who don't have family here as well. I also have like friends in the States who have family nearby who don't help them. You know what I mean? So I'm not like saying having family in the same city is the, because sometimes that doesn't work either. And some people, yeah, okay. And some people have got these like amazing neighbors who have become like aunties and uncles to their kids. So.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, oh, hands raised over here. Ha ha ha.

Fiona Walsh

I think there's a couple of things. So when your kids are younger, if they're in full-time care, it's a hell of a lot easier. Like I said, this got hard for me once my kids went to school because they were in care from, you know, like I would drop them at eight thirty and we'd pick them up at about five. And they were, yeah, we didn't, you didn't and it was pretty much all year round as well.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm.

Fiona Walsh

Um, and then, so it really started to get hard when it was the first year when my eldest entered kindergarten, because, um, they have pro D days or curriculum days here, like really often. And so, um, and if you've got a, uh, high energy, like ADHD kid that needs, like, you can't put them in front of the TV all day, like this doesn't work. So, um, finding that balance. I mean, then you're putting them in camps, which gets really expensive. So like I'm aware that we are in a position of privilege that we could pay for camps, but it still was a drain financially for us. And then also like we noticed quickly when his neurodiversity or symptoms of it really started in the first term of kindergarten. And we began to realize as well that he, actually, the best thing for him at the end of the day wasn't to go to an after school program and be continually overstimulated and with other kids and things like that. He actually, and I fought that for a long time because I was like, no, I need to work to these hours and you need to fit in with my commitments of work. And then I'll be the best mom ever at five Oh five. But, and you know what I mean? Um, and then it was, that was part of the burnout that I'd sort of, I was trying to like- the day and the care and make it all work. And kids are not like that. You know what I mean? They'll have days where they need to be picked up early. And that's really hard. One of the things that COVID did to my personal work schedule was just like teams meetings from like nine in the morning, sometimes to five o'clock at day at night. So that also made it hard that if you did need to do like an early pickup or something, you literally like signing your child out at the office.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm.

Fiona Walsh

while on with the phone, like, and people were super understanding, but, and you know, we joke, the mums joke about it, but the schools here, even if the dads put us a first point of contact, the school calls the mum 100% of the time, do you know what it means? I still laugh about it. This goes back to the, you know, the lion's share still being with a lot of mums.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Oh.

Fiona Walsh

A lot of our societal norms and expectations are still first point of contact, even if all the paperwork says please call dad or grandma first. So this is the stuff that we're like still up against. I was saying like the millennial mom thinking we could do it all. Well, society in many ways hasn't come as far as what I thought it would by this stage. And so I've had to change my beliefs and expectations to make sure so that it works for me and my family.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yep.

Fiona Walsh

Um, one of the things that we've done just recently is, um, we now have got an au pair who lives with us. Um, and so that's a, for people who can't afford a nanny, cause nannies are more expensive. Um, we have an au pair, yeah, really expensive. So we have an au pair and she, we have a basement area where she can live, which helps as well. So, um, that's one way of getting some support as well. Do you know what I mean? That's, that's cheaper.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, really expensive.

Fiona Walsh

Um, and it's a nice to have someone in your household that's like a big cousin or a big sister to your kids and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, I mean, most people I know who are working, it's after school programs, some before as well, if their work, you know, is an early start. Um, in my family, my other half starts work at 6 AM. So I was always doing the mornings solo. Um, and then after we'd sort of after school we would share after, you know, from the after school pickup. Um, but I think as well, like if you do have a child that doesn't like mine needed, needed a different afternoon scenario, there's really not many options. Um, and, and if they've got really specialist needs, like mo it's hard to have a nanny or an au pair as well. Like I'm still around when our au pairs looking after our kids and stuff like that because If he's having a really hard time, it's usually, it's usually like myself or my other half who really needs to help him through it. And I wouldn't expect an aneurysm repair to do that. So, um, yeah, I don't think there's like, there's, there's lots of options. They all cost a lot of money. That's one thing I'll say. So I understand why some people, um, who have multiple children don't work because. it doesn't make any financial sense. It's much more financially astute to stay home and look after your kids. But yeah, what about you? Are your kids still needing care or are they?

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, so I have four. They are 10, 8, well, 10, 9. Sorry, he just had a birthday. 5 and 3. And so, so like right now I have one that's home with me. He does preschool a couple days a week in the mornings only. So he's home with me, which means that like some of these podcast episodes, people may hear like a tiny little voice come in that, you know, doesn't get edited out or whatever. But I think that that's important too, is that having these having the conversations. It's that idea too of like that be it all, you can have it all thing that got, I don't know, like that went in with the school planners as far as I'm concerned when we were in middle school and high school is like, yeah, you can do that. However, in order to have it all and do it all, you actually have to do all of it in order for it to be done. So like, spoiler alert, like there's no assistance.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah

Dr. Ashley Blackington

So like, you know, like you can a la carte your life, right? However, like you still have to pay the bill at the end of the day, and that is your time and your energy and your bandwidth and all those pieces. So, you know, I, yeah, go ahead.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah. And one thing I'll say is when we were at home in COVID, it was normalized that like you'd have a little toddler pop up behind you or someone's cat walks across the screen. It has shifted back though, you know what I mean? So if you've got, I know people, if you've got kids home sick.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Uh huh.

Fiona Walsh

people like, Oh, sorry, and super apologetic. And it's like, well, you know, they're sick, they can't go to school, and you're still doing your job, you know, so you're trying to do it all, trying to have it all. And on those days, and on those days, ask any of the parents, the working parents, like, you are so torn, because you've got important, like, maybe I'm trying to facilitate a workshop with lots of people, but I've got a child who's really sick on the couch, just like

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, again, right? Like circling back.

Fiona Walsh

streaming Paw Patrol all day and you're really torn because you're like, not, you know, you've got mom guilt for your child and you've got work guilt because you're not showing up as you used to before you had kids. And it, um, yeah, it's really, it's a real challenge.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm hmm. It is a real balance. So for you, go ahead.

Fiona Walsh

One thing though, I will say has changed for me since working for myself and working with more mums and I've, I'm going to be interested to see where this trend goes, but I see more mums like me leaving corporate and redesigning what work and life, home life looks like them so that they can do high impact, passionate work, but also pick up from school if they want to.

one, two, three, four, five days a week and create the space to be like, I've got a really sick kid today, so I'm going to have to cancel my three coaching calls and move them. And my clients have been amazing because a lot of them are moms or actually all of them are parents, a lot of moms, and they get it. Whereas in corporate, it was their understanding wasn't there. And I even had someone say to me when I was setting up my business, you know, two years ago, a year and a half ago.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm

Fiona Walsh

what are you going to do if you've got sick kids on the couch and you've got like a call? Like what are you going to do? Because in the corporate world, that's not acceptable. And so, I mean, now I have it au pair as a bit of backup. But with people I know who understand and are flexible, now I'm just super honest. And I'm like, I've got a really sick kid. It wouldn't be okay if we move it to like later tonight or in the next week. And I've been really...

I don't know, it's just been a really cool time to be like, oh, we are shifting. And maybe it's us leading the way by like, not feeling like we have to be apologetic, but actually saying my needs today have changed because I have a sick child and they're my priority and, and like most humans are awesome. And they're like, of course, like look after your child. Do you know what I mean?

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah. And I think too, like in the long run, that's how this, this systemic change that we're looking for is going to happen. Like I think that if we are waiting for it to come from the top and say, like all these corporate, it's not going to happen. What's going to happen is individual people are going to say, this is what I need to do in order to do, to do my life and design around that. And, and there is, there is also like, you know, privilege in that and being able to like, have the background and have the career and have the experience to say, okay, I'm gonna set up that. But I do think that is going to lead to opportunities for people that have people that work for them that are also in that position. So I think that it's gonna rise up the ladders as we go on. And so that is the part that does make me really hopeful that change that's happening right now on the level that we're on.

young businesses and growing and things like that is that once you get as you grow, you're not just going to, you're not going to say to somebody that works for you, well, if your kid is sick, like too bad, you still need to be on the call, right? Like you're going to bring that compassion and that understanding to them down the line, which is only going to help to drive change that we want.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, and I agree. I think that I worked in change a lot in corporate and I understand how systems change. I understand how people change and it's definitely something I'm super passionate about. But like what, as I said, my hypothesis at the moment is that the millennial moms and dads who are going, well, that's not gonna change fast enough for me. I'm gonna start writing my own story. They're the ones where I'm like, wow, and they're all doing really well in their own businesses. And I think this could be the big shift that we've been looking for. And it's coming from an individual point of view, rather than waiting, as you say, for the corporates or the systems to change, which that's always going to be really hard because the people at the top are a very different generation. They had. And one of the other things I think is interesting is that your children are only at an age where they're really needing you a lot for a short portion of their life. And I even see other parents who I've worked with now who've got teenagers or kids who are at university and stuff. And they're like, it's not like my kids don't want to know me, but they're like, I don't have the amount I have all this free time all of a sudden. So you know that it's like, it's depending on how many children you have, it's only a 10 or 15 time but it’s also the peak time of our career. So it's just a bit of a timing thing, but knowing that it's not forever. I say this is a really cool opportunity for me to like take the time to build my business while I support my family. And then when they get to the age where they're gonna be like, well, mom, I'm gonna sport after school and I don't need a lift, yay, the day that comes. You know what I mean?

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Right? Hehe

Fiona Walsh

But like, then I'll be like, Oh, cool, then I can if I want to jump back into working those hours that were really long, I'll be able to because my kids won't need me. But while they do, I, and this is a sentiment that a lot of my friends carries, like, we really want to be there for our kids and support them while they still need us because we know that all the little things and all the effort that we make and all the space we hold for them emotionally.

when they're little, that's what helps forge the trust in relationships when they're teenagers and young adults. And the dynamic between mom and child is quite different.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, yeah, I think that's so, it's so important to remember too, is like this idea that you're not like this, when you have kids, this is not the forever stance, right? Like it's, it is lovely and heartbreaking at the same time, right? It's like you go from like, I'm trying to keep you alive. You are doing your very best to like fall off something, jump off something, choke on something, break something, like all of that.

Fiona Walsh

Mm. I know, isn't it?

Dr. Ashley Blackington

I'm trying my best. And then all of a sudden they're like, thanks, that was great. Like, I don't, I don't need your help anymore. Like I drive, I do this, I do this. And you're like, no, wait, like, hold on. It was just a second ago. Like it's, I think too, like that's maybe that is part of the idea of like growing something on your own business wise, career wise, while this is happening, it's just that idea of like, as their needs go down and your time goes up to try and figure out where that, I mean, I think the crossing point is gonna be different for everybody, depending on, like you said, how many kids you have and what you're doing and what you're growing and things like that. But the idea that you can continue to push forward in that thing for you and that you are passionate about, like you said, that lights you up and that is really important to you to hold on to.

Fiona Walsh

Mm. Yes

Dr. Ashley Blackington

And I think too, the other part that we also need to talk about is the idea of like, work can be that thing. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's the only thing, right? It's not like you're like a mom. And so you do, you know, school pickup and you have all of these pieces. And then you have work, like what you do for work, when you choose what you want to do for work, when you have this opportunity to create and grow something can serve two purposes. It can serve that career purpose. And it can also serve that fulfillment piece that doesn't always happen.

when it comes to career or job or whatever, depending on whatever you're doing. So I think that's important too. Like you in the design of your days and then the design of the decades of your life, where does that make sense for you? And I think that's why people are getting into entrepreneurship more than generations past.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, and I agree. And you know, one of the things I did that was really telling for me when I was trying to figure out, should I stay or should I go in corporate? Um, was, and I always do this with my coaching clients is that like doing, um, before going to bed at night, doing a gratitude journal where you write down three things that you're grateful for each day. And from a neuroscience point of view, it's like the best thing to do before you go to sleep. Cause you like shutting down with like positivity and things that you've filled up your cup during the day. But the really powerful piece is looking it back at your three entries a day after a month or two months. And when I did that two years ago, there were a couple and I mean less than a handful of work references in my daily gratitude. And it made me just go, hmm, how much time am I spending? How much of my emotional capacity is being invested into work, which means sometimes I'm a bit snappier with my kids than I want to be or don't feel like I can hold the space for them if they've had a really hard day and someone's been mean to them at school. Yeah, it really just made me take a step back to be like, I'd like my gratitude list to have a whole lot of work stuff on it and not just kids or other things that I'm learning or do you know what I mean? Other things that have made me feel grateful. So yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

It's that work to live, live to work kind of thing. It's like, what side of the equation do you want to be on? So outside of work in that capacity and outside of motherhood and all of its entirety, this like juggernaut of role experience, what are things that you do for you? Like what are the pieces that just sort of like bring it all back together for you?

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so when I mentioned early on how I went to that retreat in Tulum, and one of the exercises they got us to do was list like one to five and it was like work, relationship, family, self, and maybe like passion projects or something like that. And you had to like order one to five, like what, how much time you're investing into it and emotional capacity. And not surprisingly, because I was burnt out.

I self was number self was number five for me. And my relationship was four as well, which was like, even though I have an awesome relationship, it was still like, I'm not giving it enough. You know what I mean? It was all going to work in the kids and stuff. And then so we had to reorder them about what what's our future state or what would we like to be? And so I've definitely that's been a big focus for me. And it's something that hasn't come easily.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah.

Fiona Walsh

Um, like my mom is the most giving person, one of the most giving people in the world. And she cares so much about other people that, you know, the modeling that I saw was to give, give. And my grandma was the same. So I've got like a cycle. If we want to talk about cycle breakers, cycles of people pleasing of like always giving to others. That was what the maternal role was modeled to me. And so I've had to like break that down and also like create like a lot of structure around.

what works for me to keep, to make me come back to my best self because otherwise I'm too stressed or, so for me, I started meditating in Tulum and I still do some form of meditation nearly every day. Doesn't happen every single day. And sometimes it's literally like five minutes and then one of my kids walks in and I'm like, all right, I got five minutes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Check!

Fiona Walsh

No, well, the nice thing about meditation is once you get over that initial hump where your to do lists and all those sort of things. You can drop into it a little bit faster once you get into a bit of a routine. I also similarly to meditation, I really like yoga for like moving my body, getting good stretch, getting a good workout, like a hard power flow class is good. And grounding, that's a grounding breathing sort of exercise.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm-hmm.

Fiona Walsh

We are lucky where we live in North Vancouver, we actually can walk to school and through the forest every day. And so for me, making the time to get out in nature has been like a game changer. I still don't do it nearly as much as I should. But yeah, walking in the forest is and walking without the kids is even better. Quiet and you can really just like, you know, have that time for yourself. So for me, those are some of the key sort of activities I do, but also I'm trying in my planning day to day with my own work to create more white space because I was, when I got hyperproductive, I was like 24 seven and I'd be like work all day, kids go to bed and then as I'd be like making the lunches for the next day, I'd be like listening to like, you know, Adam Grant or Brene Brown on my podcast. So I'm preparing for work. And like, it was just like you are so hyperproductive. And so I now understand, if you think about like masculine and feminine energy, I was just so programmed in the masculine energy, which is like plans and execution and doing doing. I'm really trying and it's sometimes a bit of a street fight to lead into the more feminine energy, which is like flow state having space like not actually having plans or parking the to do list to have some quiet time just to like do nothing.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, I think I like that. What you said about the cycle breaking because I think that that's an important thing, because I think cycle breaking is one of those things that it's come up a lot, like in the last, I don't know, I feel like 10, 15 years maybe, but it always comes up as like a negative. Right. So it's like this idea of like breaking cycles. It's like cycles that are harmful, hurtful, you know, not great, right? Zero out of 10. Do not recommend.

Fiona Walsh

Yep.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Whereas there's also cycles that are not necessarily negative, because there is positive, right? Like there's positive in growing up in a household where it's like, you know, you have the like the worm cookies after school and all that stuff. But like that doesn't necessarily inform your development in a way that is congruent with what you want. But it's hard. It's like, it's like hard to not to be like, well, that that's not bad. It's just not going to line up with how I want it to go for me. And that doesn't mean that it's bad that I'm not doing that. Do you know what I mean?

Fiona Walsh

Oh yeah, 100%. I think, yes, when the first time I heard about cycle breaking, it was more like, you know, people trying to break cycles of domestic abuse or alcoholism, you know, like big T trauma stuff. When you look at cycles that a lot of people, you know, I said, I'm in my messy middle life. This is what I'm working on. Like the, you know, people-pleasing, perfectionism, they're things that like...

can be superpowers at times and have got you to where you are. But they're also in the coaching I do with people, these are the pieces that are holding you back because you're on autopilot so much of the time. They're so programmed into your subconscious. You don't even notice you're doing them. And then you get triggered or disappointed in yourself because there you are. You did it again. So, um, and I think that, um, even, um, I'm a big fan of Dr. Becky Kennedy, who's got this whole parenting movement called Good Inside.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

I love her.

Fiona Walsh

And she talks about how we're, you know, we're the generation of cycle-breaking parents in that the way we're showing up with our kids is totally a different way of parenting and creating like emotional space for them that we didn't have as children growing up. And like, there is, in all of her work, there is nothing saying what our parents did to us was.

wasn't with the best intentions. It's just like, we've got more data now, we know more about psychology now. Like we have, we're in this information age, if we weren't using it all to inform which cycles could be improved or redirected, then we would be, you know, it would be a waste. So, yeah, no, I think that, yeah, I think that it's not cycle breaking, you know, is a really positive thing. And I think that especially, you know, the small, as I said, the small t stuff or even, um, even just like breaking habits and stuff. If it's like good for you, go for it.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Right, right. It's that allocation of bandwidth. It's like, do you have so much of your bandwidth that's going to these things that you're saying you're on autopilot for and you wonder why at the end of the day, when, beginning of the day, everyone's in school and you've got an hour or whatever between now and your next meeting, what are you doing? Are you going around and like picking up the house and cleaning things and doing all that? Or are you sitting down and doing the thing that you're gonna be thinking that you need to do the entire time you're going around to do that? So it's like, am I fulfilling what I need to fulfill for me? Sometimes it is the living room, right? Like sometimes I walk in my living room and I'm like, how do people concentrate on anything in this house? That's like, there's puzzles and there's like stuff everywhere.

Fiona Walsh

Yes. Hmm. Lego.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Lego, oh my God, we just had Christmas and there is a Lego dump truck that showed up at my house. It's just, and they, the little pieces and I love it. It's great. Fine motor. OT. I get it. However, like the fine motor doesn't need to happen underneath my foot. It's Lego. Oh my God. But that idea of like, where do you put that emphasis in that moment? And are you choosing to like walk in the rut that is I have to clean up the living room before I can go do that, or this is what I need to do right now. And that like checking in with yourself component of it.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and those little expectations that you hold on yourself, or as I said, the stories that you hold, like just like sitting with that and being like, is that really, do I need to do that? Is it really important? And would it be better that I took some time for myself and like moved my body or like took some deep breaths? You know what I mean? Like rather than like speed cleaning out a snack and intentionally ate rather than eating it like while I'm doing 50 things and then like, did I eat that apple? Oh yeah, there's a core over there. I must have eaten it. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like the, in the lack of intention sometimes, like just dialing up intention can go like such a long way to be present. And it's finding those micro moments to be honest, because like parents don't have, as I said, I've been trying to find the white space, still trying. It's not like happening consistently, but I am better at like my like coffee in the morning, I always make sure I pause and be like, I absolutely love coffee. So I'm just like, I always pause and take a couple of breaths. And it's like, there's a couple of those moments a day that I always have. And another one's when I'm brushing my teeth, which sounds silly, but it's like, I know it's in my day. And it's just those moments where I'm like, okay, I'm just checking in with my body. Where am I at? How am I feeling? How's it going? Am I grounded? Or am I like vibrating? And just, yeah, grounding in those micro moments as well.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Uh-huh.

Fiona Walsh

Cause you know, like I said to you, they're like, I haven't been to yoga in three or four weeks and I'm really noticing at the moment because it's like one of my, when you go for an hour, you really, you know, are able to switch gears and ground. So when you're without that for whatever's going on illness in your family or lots of stuff going on, it's even just those micro moments can really do make a difference.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Mm hmm. And I think too, like for people that, you know, like there's people that are listening that have brand new babies and there's people that are listening that have teenagers and things like that. I think too, it's also really important to think about, like, sometimes you only have those micro moments and it's not like it's not like the scraps or the like the breadcrumbs of the day. I mean, sometimes it is depending on, you know, like a brand new baby where you forget you're like, when did I shower last? It's been five days. Oh, my God, this is gross.

Fiona Walsh

Mm. Yep. Oh, I know. Yup.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

But that idea of like, if you're someone who is feeling like, I am totally drowning right now, I am totally underwater, I don't do anything for myself, I don't like, I am, I am in the like, the chasm right now I'm in the Grand Canyon that is motherhood and how do I claw my way out. And I think that like the breadcrumb approach of like, I'm going to stop and have this sip of coffee. The whole world could be ablaze behind me, however, like for this second, I'm gonna do this. And then for this second, and then you build on those as it makes sense for you in order to start to create that white space, in order to start to create like, maybe it's the sip of coffee in the morning, and then it turns into like 10 minutes where you read the newspaper and you have coffee, or it's that, and it's just like growing those moments as you can, but without like, making it a good or bad thing, right? Like some days, like you're saying, like some days, meditation lasts five minutes and some days meditation is 45 minutes or whatever. I, like, if you can meditate for 45 minutes, I bow down to you. That I mean, I might, I might have to be like 85 and like half asleep in order for that to count. It's like a 45 minute meditation, but like that, I think that's an important thing for people to think about instead of being like, “Oh, I have to now do all this stuff for me.” So I need to like have this hard block of time.

Fiona Walsh

Yes, okay, this is this is really this was one of my biggest like, forks in the road moment as a mom, because I was always like, I finished work before I had kids, I go exercise, I have an hour or an hour and a half, so I go to the gym, I can run go to the pool do all these things. When you particularly when you've got little kids like newborns or yeah, I had you know, as I had three kids under two, though you don't you never going to get to the pool.

Or if a window came up, you're so tired that you just want to go to bed. You don't like get, you know what I mean? That either. So it's a bit, you really have to re learn or rethink what can I create and when can I do it? And yet, and like being grateful when you did notice, like stop and do the two sips of coffee, like gratitude is the biggest gift that we can like engage with as humans. It's like.

It does so much for our mental state, our emotional state. And yeah, just looking for those small moments or if you've got newborns and that, like those cuddle moments, because my God, like once your kids get bigger, you don't have those anymore. Like you get so over it when you've got newborns, but then when they don't do it anymore at all. Yes, we always like koala babies in Australia because you're like...

Dr. Ashley Blackington

I know. I know. When they're like Velcroed to you and you're just like, I need a minute.

Fiona Walsh

But yeah, just finding those moments. I mean, when my, and being really like focused on making it happen. So when my twins would go down for their first nap of the day, it was the one that I knew like might last 40 minutes. Sometimes we went over an hour, but I, as soon as they were down, I would sit on the couch and I used to put in this like guided meditation for 10 or 15 minutes. And like.

That was what it taught me. Like I didn't need to do an hour of anything anymore, but that 10 minutes consistently when I, and sorry, the other thing is like habit stacking, you know, like, so if you know you're going to do something like make a cup of coffee, then add something to it. Like do five star jumps or like take three breaths, like add what these micro moments that you need for yourself to ground yourself intentionally and add it to something you're already doing. So I added it to like they're down asleep, I'm free, but now, and now it's my time to like get that 10 minutes of meditation in. Um, and yes, most of the time I hadn't showered in five days and. Like, who knows when I washed my hair last, like I literally like my hair was so dry shampooed, it would be my hairdresser would be like, what are we going to do?

Dr. Ashley Blackington

And you're like, listen, I'm just going to go lay in the sink. And if you want to just turn the water on and leave me there, we can call that a haircut, but I'll be asleep and there'll be some sort of cleanliness that occurred at the end of this experiment.

Fiona Walsh

Yes. Yes, exactly.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

That's awesome. So you work with parents. And so I would love for you to tell everybody how they can find you and what that all looks like.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. So you can find me, you can DM me through Instagram. My tag is FionaWalshCoaching and I have a website. It's currently under development, but it might be, it should be live by the time this episode posts. And that's FionaWalsh.co. And you can see on that, I work with people. At the moment, my work is all one-on-one.

And so I've got two options. One is like a shorter commitment. It's usually four to five weeks where we do one area of growth or change that you're trying to tackle and go deep in a very deep but targeted way. Or I've got a 10 week package, which is when we look at you more holistically, we look at things like your triggers, your values, how you're showing up in the world. And then we also go into your belief systems and your fears and how that might be stopping you from getting to where you wanna go. So yeah, look me up and yeah, getting touch. I'm lovely, I love just chatting to people. So if a clarity call works for you, we can have a chat and see if we're gonna be a good fit. But yeah, I'm really looking forward to, you know, continuing this work and it really, as I said, like.

I don't have as many hours to work, but when I'm doing coaching, it's just like such a rewarding role. And to see people go through these like personal transformations is just like, it's like, it doesn't get much better than that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and being here. And it was lovely to talk with you. And I will, I'll put all the contact info in the show notes so people can find you and reach out. And I think that is it. I don't know. Do you have any, anything else? I don't know.

Fiona Walsh

No, I would just say to anyone out there who's struggling at the moment is that you might feel like you're in a hole right now, but you'll always come out of it. And women in particular, we have such a hard time asking for help. But if you can, lean on people around you for help and don't don't, you know, don't feel bad about, you know, taking on a free meal or letting someone take one of your kids out of the house, so you can have a break because you're the most important person in your kids' lives. You need to look after yourself first and make sure you're at your best, even when you're in a hole so that you can support your kids the way that they need you to.

Dr. Ashley Blackington

Yeah, start small, just one thing, one little thing. Well, thank you so much for being here today and enjoy.

Fiona Walsh

Yeah. Thanks, Ashley. Thanks so much. See you.