Full Episode Transcript

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:00.81)

Hello and welcome back to the AND/BOTH podcast. I am here this week with Penny Goffman. She is from HeyMama. I'm going to have her tell you all about it, but welcome Penny and thank you for being here today.

Penny Goffman (00:14.465)

Thank you so much, Ashley. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. I am head of community at HeyMama. I've been there for a few years now, and I'm just really excited to be here today on the podcast.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:28.014)

That's awesome. I love, I just, I think I joined HeyMama in January, I believe. It was either January or December. And since joining, I have been very warmly welcomed by you specifically, but other members of the community. So when you, when you agreed to come on and talk, I was like, oh, please, because I have wanted to, to sort of hear more of your story since the beginning. Yeah, so head of community and you are what does that entail? So what does that look like for you?

Penny Goffman (01:03.521)

Okay, perfect. I'll rewind. I didn't want to like take over and like, you know, just start going off on that, but I'm glad that you asked. So let me rewind and also just say tell everyone who's listening what Hey Mama is in a nutshell. Before I even talk about my particular role. HeyMama is a private membership community for working moms and most specifically moms in business. Moms building any sort of brand moms building any sort of business from CEOs, founders, and also just you know consultants coaches you name it podcasters authors The beauty I think and Ashley you'll totally relate to this is that no longer are we just one thing, right? It's like back in the day if you were a journalist you were a journalist and that was it It's not like that anymore. You can be a journalist and also be a speaker and also be a podcaster and Also be you know a writer and and have penned a book as an author.

So at HeyMama community where we kind of help put all of that together. And specifically as head of community, my role is personally, I think the best one there because I get to connect all of the members. I get to make sure that our community of amazing mamas of, you know, thousands of members feel like they are heard, feel like they are making the right relationships, building those relationships, networking, connecting with others, getting the resources they need, being amplified, helping to get them PR, host member meetups, all of the above. And that is my lucky job.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (02:43.95)

Yeah, it's a very cool spot. And I will say, I'm one of those people that I am forever the skeptic. And I came to Hey Mama via another member who was like, no, no, no, you have to come in here because forever and ever I was a part of groups that were talking about building businesses and things like that. But there is that layer of people not understanding that I don't have a nine to five life. Um, and I haven't had a nine to five life for a decade plus now. And so having people to understand that, like, sometimes you have to move something at the last minute because you've got to go pick up one of your kids from school. Or sometimes you're, you're trying to figure out how to write some application for something, or you're trying to launch a podcast or whatever you're doing, but that you're the same person who's just trying to do all of these things, sometimes at the same time, don't recommend, but you know, such is life. And that there is a space where people are like, oh, you know, me too, in a way that is not me too. And I'm also like running a marathon and doing this, this and this. Like it's very, it's a non -competitive, very supportive space to be in. So it's, I love it so far.

Penny Goffman (04:07.521)

Absolutely, and to piggyback off of what you just said, Ashley, I always liken it to an octopus, but probably more than eight tentacles, because none of us are just doing one thing, as I said, and that goes above and beyond. Moms, working moms in this day and age, unless those who are very strictly corporate and very nine to five, especially the members of Hey Mama, members like you and myself included,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (04:16.194)

Yeah.

Penny Goffman (04:35.219)

We have so many different tentacles that we are reaching into and digging into. And to be around, you know, like -minded women that includes that motherhood element is very unique. And it's also hard to find. And having that flexibility is really important. We definitely saw from the community side that, you know, after like the, after 2020, there were so many mothers who pivoted. I can't tell you the amount of mothers who, from corporate and lockdown March 2020, came out of that saying nine to five is not working for my home life anymore.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (05:20.814)

Yeah, for sure.

Penny Goffman (05:32.417)

And I didn't even realize it, and now I have. And just that juggle, being there for their children, being able to be there more at pick -up or those after -school hours, while also building and growing something that's spectacular and meaningful to them. All of that is combined.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (05:36.852)

Yeah, I had I had another woman on here who helps women with career pivots. And it's kind of along that same line of like, I know how to do all these things. I have all these skills. Why am I like, doing? Why am I a part of this system when I have, I have this experience and I have the skill set that I can go out and do this on my own. And I mean, that's a risk. It's not like, it's not like that's like a super simple thing to do.

But I feel like when everyone's kind of proverbial and literal back was up against the wall, when it came to the pandemic, people were like, well, I guess no time like the present, right? Like no, there's no good choice. So you're just making the best of the worst choice. Or it gives you an opportunity to say, you know what, I really wanted to do that for a long time right now. Things are like kind of nuts. So why not jump now? Like if not now, then when am I going to do this?

Penny Goffman (06:33.441)

There's always a silver lining that comes out of tragedy or crisis. And what you just said, a key word that you just said was opportunity. There was and always is opportunity, even in those down moments. And I think a lot of mothers saw that opportunity of, wow, I don't have to work in an office and potentially commute nine to five days a week to be productive or to be happy or to provide or to be fulfilled and there's other ways and I'm going to take advantage of those opportunities and you know, just take the leap that I've been wanting to take.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (07:10.446)

Yeah. And so how did you, how did you come to HeyMama?

Penny Goffman (07:15.137)

Yeah. So actually, I joined in January of 2018 as a member, just like you actually, that's just like you joined, I joined as a member at the time I owned a company called Jolie Goutique, which was named after my daughter Jolie. And it was a omni channel fashion brand, retail. And basically, I joined to get all the benefits that you are here for. And I was really engaged. So it was the fall of 2019 where HeyMama approached me for a contractor role because I was really active and we were doing, they had a lot of in -person events as well. And I joined as a contractor to kind of build my local community. And then I sold my fashion business in December of 2020, which was the sale of a first business for me.

So that was such an interesting process and really quite incredible and when I knew that I was going to be selling it, I went to headquarters and I went to Amri Kribler, the co-founder, and basically said, you know, I'm technically up for hire if you'd like. And they were like, come on board. And a month later, a month after I signed on the official sale of my business, I joined HeyMama HQ. And it has been the loving relationship ever since.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (08:27.47)

Yeah.

Penny Goffman (08:42.241)

I just am so grateful that the opportunity came to me and I really, really love my work because connecting with moms, connecting with working moms, connecting with moms who are building something is just quite an incredible position to be in.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (08:58.574)

Yeah, I think that's that is really cool. And so how how old are your kids? Because they're on the older side of childhood, right? They're teenagers.

Penny Goffman (09:06.753)

totally. Yes, I was having this conversation. I went to this just event for fun, like a couple of weeks ago. And I was talking to a mom and I knew she had little kids, you know, like a six month old toddler. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, my kids are old. And then I was like, Wait, no, they're, they're not old. Wait, like, I'm really like aging myself there. They're not old. I'm not an empty nester. They're not like married with children. But it's, it's so funny the way you just said it, because it felt that way to me.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (09:21.838)

Right?

Penny Goffman (09:36.097)

when you're around a group whose children are more in the toddler phase or early elementary, yes. So I have a son and a daughter. My daughter is in ninth grade in high school and in a month, she's gonna be 15. And my son is in sixth grade in middle school and in three weeks, he's gonna be 12. So I had that kind of tween as well as full -fledged teenager and middle school, high school, it's a completely different chapter and different journey than those early years. But I just love it. I really do. I love it.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:12.366)

Yeah, I was just reading this article. I actually think it was yesterday about there's a new push for people taking, I think it was called teenternity, something to some teen in there, but parents taking a, like a parent leave when their kids are teenagers or like downshifting their schedule because the amount of like hands -on that parents of kids that are in that early high school age are feeling like kids really need because of so many things that are going on, right? Like with social media and with all of the driving to sports and all of the kind of the activities that really ramp up in that part of life. So I just thought about, I was actually thinking about you because I was gonna talk to you today and thinking like having that transition from having your brand and now having kids that are a little bit older where you have this more, I hate the word flexible because I feel like it has this like not, not like important, but just, you know what I mean? Like it has this connotation of like laissez faire, like, oh sure, whatever. Um, but that it gives you the opportunity to maybe move things around a little bit more and finagle a little bit better to like maybe match that. So I don't know. I don't know if you found that having kids that are on the older side of being kids.

Penny Goffman (11:45.017)

Absolutely, I could talk about this for a while which I won't but but First of all, I have never heard the term teenternity so that is so cool And I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna take to Google right after this or or maybe to hey mama connect Which is the private member platform and and bring up this term, you know, I'm gonna be doing that Ashley Wow, I wrote it down Teenturnity.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (11:46.966)

Mm -mm. Ha ha! I'll send you the article.

Penny Goffman (12:15.073)

Okay, so let me just say I had the ability and I'm so grateful that I took five years off work when my eldest was born. So I went back to work when she was five and that would mean that my youngest was two, but he had just started into preschool and I, you know, had a flexible job. So I was, I was still around, but I'm going to say something about these tween teen years. Those after school hours are so critical.

And look, I'm in a position where, you know, I work virtually, at HeyMama, we're all around the country. So, you know, we, and we're all moms, not all, but most of us are moms. So we get that how important those hours are. And we know like, we're gonna try not to schedule meetings after three guys, you know, that type of thing. But so let me just say for those, everyone who's listening, that if you have the opportunity, and we don't all have it.

Being around after school, being around after three o 'clock when your children are in middle school and high school is really, really, I know it's luxury, but important if you're able to because it's exactly what you said and then some. That's where you get the nitty gritty. That's where when your child feels like it at the most random of times.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (13:29.134)

Yeah.

Penny Goffman (13:40.769)

Recently for me, literally I was taking my son to a pediatrician and all of a sudden, after the nurse leaves while we're waiting in the room, you know, he's sitting on the table and we're waiting in the room for the doctor to come in. He's like spilling the beans on all sorts of things that were so random that I was so happy to hear about, like, you know, like all the secrets, but it's happened in the most random of times in those after school hours. And being around for that, being around to give the support, it's not outward support, you know, it's kind of like secret support, like, they don't really know you're supporting them. During those times, hearing about the homework, like what tests are coming up, helping your child to organize with those executive functioning skills. What's the drama or non -drama? What are the wins? What were the challenges? Sometimes the challenge is like, I had a really crappy lunch and it put me in a really bad mood. But you know what? Being there to hear that and be like, oh, that sucks. Like maybe tomorrow you'll buy something else or make something else being there to validate those moments on yes, we are a big sports family. So when you mentioned that the driving is real, the lifts to from the snacks, like, you know, when you're, when you have twins and teens, they want a mini dinner after school and being there to help with that in a healthy way.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (14:48.686)

It's insane.

Penny Goffman (15:06.907)

There are so many elements to those after school hours. So I think a teen turn is like just this novel and incredible idea. And I think, look, you know, I think employers of small businesses, large businesses also get it. Like I was just looking at, you know, a friend of mine was asking me about a job posting if I knew anyone who, and it's a big company I won't mention, but a big company and they're virtual all around the country and they employ a lot of moms. So just having that understanding that, you know, after three o 'clock, if you have twins and teens,

Those are really important and I'm also gonna go as far as to say that of course we all wanna be there when our children are just born and we wanna be there to see them walk and take their first step and all those things. I get it, cause I was, but it is important on a whole other level when you have tweens and teens, cause the stakes are higher. The stakes are higher. If you miss the first steps, you feel badly about that. But if you miss some of this really important teen information, or ability to lend a helping hand for some of these more dramatic scenarios or academics, whatever it is, those can impact long -term. So stakes are just higher.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:17.646)

Yeah, I read there was another one and I don't remember the term, but it was something like plant parent. And it was saying like, teens really want parents to be there. They just don't necessarily want you to like, be sitting next to them. It's like that idea of like, they like having somebody in the house because they know somebody's there and they do like what you're describing your son did. It's like, they will come and find you and like, you know, share and do all of that. But knowing that like, somebody is there. And I mean, truly it all like that that stuff is all I think all that stuff is really important. And it may be that like that doesn't happen at three could be that that happens at five, but like having that ability to like turn off whatever whatever you're working on. And then just sort of like checking out of that for a little bit is also a different way to do it.

There's a thing in the, I think it was in the Netherlands, they were talking about how it's like, it's common for people to, it's not the Netherlands, but it's common for people to like, they take those after school hours and they're like not available or they have flex hours. And then after the kids go to bed, it's like, you can pick up those two hours to like make the day. And that's like totally normal and acceptable in whatever country that's in. And I wish, I think it's maybe Denmark. It's some, it's somewhere, somewhere over there.

Um, and I thought that was so interesting because it's like a way of being able to sort of do the, and both, but in a way that works for the parent, it's a way that works for the child, but it's also a way that works for the employer and them having the understanding that like, this person has things that exist outside of like whatever their role is here. And let's have a little bit of flexibility for this time of day to not schedule those meetings, to not have those calls, to not, you know, stack it all in there.

Penny Goffman (18:15.649)

Absolutely, which is really putting productivity above, you know, rigidity.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:20.622)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, that's one of those things that like, hopefully we'll stick around for a while. Hopefully that change and that flexibility, you know, everyone's got the like cat that walks across the keyboard on zoom or the kid that's like, you know, walking into the middle of your meeting. Like we've all, we all have those stories from COVID. Um, and so hopefully there's a little bit of that, that kind of lingers around as like, it's not that big of a deal. Like let's try and pretend that we don't have other people that live in our home while we're working.

Penny Goffman (18:51.073)

Absolutely, 100%.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:51.278)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think too, it's really interesting because a lot of times like the focus is so much, especially when your kids are really young and the idea is like, it's that physical need, right? Like I have to feed this child and I have to change this child and make sure they sleep and they don't fall down and they do, you know, they don't get hurt and all of that stuff. And so there is that like, oh, my kids are now in school kind of on ramp where it's like, and now they are in school, but really, the focus is coming back to like, as they're getting ready to launch out, there's an opportunity here to like connect and to grow and deepen that bond right before they start to peter out.

Penny Goffman (19:34.421)

And I think what you mentioned, just kind of being around, and that means physically, just physically being around when they are around is really important because as you said, and I'm going to plug to people that have nothing to do with me or Hey Mama, but Dr. Becky Kennedy and Lisa Demora. Dr. Kennedy also talks a lot about younger children, but Lisa Demora is all about tweens and teens. And they both said, you mentioned it, our tweens and teens, they do want us around. They do like us. Just physically being present means a lot to them. It means that you're available in the strangest of times sometimes when random things come up, but you're available.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (20:15.116)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Penny Goffman (20:30.465)

So that has been key for me as a mom to, you know, children in this chapter.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (20:37.902)

Yeah. And so outside of, I mean, that's a huge role, right? Like motherhood is a juggernaut situation all on its own. So, hey mama, motherhood, what about, what do you do? What do you do for you? That's just for you.

Penny Goffman (20:53.793)

So I do a lot for me. This is a topic, sometimes I feel like when I talk about it, maybe I'm controversial on what I say. I don't wanna diminish anyone else's journey because I'm only referring to mine. So I always just say that I understand first of all, that I feel grateful that I have flexibility and all the things that we just spoke about. I understand that not everyone has that. But I have always taken care of myself and prioritize myself always. I almost think I have those first like conscious kind of memories of knowing this in my twenties before having children. And I think when you are like that before children, I don't think you all of a sudden just switch it off when you have children because it's really a part of who you are. That's my journey. So I don't, you know, whether it's on my Instagram or talking on podcasts and or talking to other moms, I don't use the term self care because I've never viewed it that way. I've always I view it as prioritizing myself. And that's kind of how I put it out there. And I do a lot for myself. Even when my children are young, I had no problem going to my basement where we had a treadmill and a few weights working out. I've been working out consistently since I was 22 years old. That's just a part of who I was. I worked out nine months pregnant and it really wasn't a big deal for me because I never stopped, right? Like it was just part of the weekly routine. I had no problem taking my newborn in a car seat down to my basement, putting them on the rug with a pacifier while I went on the treadmill that let out a few cries, pacifier back in like I when they were older a little older and then they couldn't be in the car seat I had no problem you know at some point when they were old enough giving them some sort of technology or putting on a TV show while I was on that trouble I'm just using working out as an example but I have always just prioritized myself and I do a lot you know what feels good for me there's so many elements to it so you know it's consistent movement for me always has been even pre -children. It's lifestyle, it's habits, it's rituals, it's date night when I've always liked going out, especially I've known, I've been with my husband since 22 years old and that's always been something between us. We like to go out for dinner, the two of us, we always dated, then when we had children, I looked at him and said, okay, like Saturday nights are night, like that can't end because that's part of who I am. I like to dress up. We continued that, like all of the things that are important to me. I've integrated new things, you know, I'm regularly steam Fridays after my workout. And when someone asks me for coffee, it's kind of usually a no because I'm gonna work out, I'm gonna steam. I just, I always have put myself first without any guilt, without even really thinking about it. I, this is just like a funny tidbit and I've written about this on blogs for people and on my Instagram. There was a point when my children were young, like in their toddler years, where they were kind of in preschool, you know, half days, that type of thing, where I did think to myself a lot, wow, I think that's selfish mother. That's what I used to think. I used to look at other moms in play groups and at, you know, kiddie gym. And I just could see the difference in terms or even in our discussions, right, about how they felt broken down, how they felt not themselves, how they felt like outer body experience, like they don't know who they are. And I knew in my mind that I would never talk about it. I would think to myself, I am a selfish mother because I don't feel this way. I have never felt this way pre -kids, with kids, and it's because I'm selfish. And maybe I'm just, and I used to, I guess the one thing I did, at that time say to myself sometimes was, okay, my gosh, like I'm a selfish person. Like I didn't really know it so much, but like now I'm realizing I am a selfish person. And it wasn't even like selfish mom. It was actually a selfish person because it also involved my husband. Like I had no problem putting things on him or asking him to do things or asking my mother -in to do things. I was like, I'm selfish. And then it was when kind of self -care, that term, became really trending and all of a sudden became marketable and all of a sudden you would see that term self -care everywhere, which was a few years ago and it still is. But when that term first came out, it was a really marketable term. And that's when I was like, oh, okay, I'm not selfish. It's just that I'm not selfless.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (26:19.982)

You're just ahead of the curve.

Penny Goffman (26:23.329)

I mean, it was just, I think it's just something always, it's something, it's the way I was before having children. And I think I'd like in a lot of deep thought and reflection on this, I think that's why that trends, that's why it transitioned into motherhood because it was already a part of me. But I was able to change that narrative on myself that, okay, no, no, no, I'm not a selfish person. I'm just not selfless. I'm not a martyr. And, in my household, I talk about that actually a lot. The word martyr comes up with my husband, like, I am not a martyr. If I offer to do something, I'm offering to do it. And if I'm quiet about it, like, I don't play the role of I take something on and then I complain about it. Because I just don't take it on or offer in the first place.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (27:10.51)

I love this. So I, when, um, like I have, you know, I ask everyone to fill in like a form and help with, uh, scheduling and all of that stuff for the podcast. And I remember when you sent that in and you, and you wrote about that in there. And I was like, Oh, I want to talk to her because I want to talk about this because I, I love it by the way. Um, and I love it because it's this idea of like, knowing exactly who you are and like having your feet firmly planted on the ground as like, I am a whole person. This is what I need to do in order to take care of myself so that I can do the best that I can as a mom, as a partner, as a person, as a business owner, as, as all of those roles, right? But then you also have this like idea of, because I mean, if you have young children and you go to a play group, it's like this weird comparison, but it's like a silent comparison kind of thing. Like, you know, there's always like, there's different, there's different variations of it, but there is this idea of like, if I'm not doing things the way that they're doing it, am I doing it wrong? But you being able to be like, no, this is just, this is what is going to work. And this is what is healthy and helpful for me.

Because really, in all honesty, you're meeting all your needs, you're meeting the needs of your kids and all of those things. It just looks different than everybody else. And that's the hard road. It's a hard road for people to say like, oh, well, that looks different. So that must be wrong. And we're all doing this thing, so we must be right.

Penny Goffman (28:49.831)

Absolutely.

Penny Goffman (29:01.889)

Absolutely, and you're right, there is kind of the secret comparison 100%. And even, I'm gonna give like two very real, very recent examples. There's also this kind of idea that it's this comparison, but also that I'm doing something so you should be doing something or having confidence in not doing something. And two examples of this are, someone was recently talked to me about gardening.

Now, I love beautiful flowers all around my house. I do. And thankfully, we have someone who helps plant these flowers every spring. And I have an interest in the aesthetic because I'm very visual and creative and I love beautiful things all around my life. But I have zero interest in gardening, like the thought of being on my hands and knees and being in the dirt. And it is not peaceful to me, but I totally get how that would be very cathartic and peaceful for someone else and meditative. But for me, it's not. So we're talking, I'm talking to this mom about gardening and I'm like, oh, like I have a green thumb, like I'm like the worst. And she took it as like, oh, like don't say that about yourself. Like, you know, like I can help you like in the nicest, sweetest of ways, I can help you and I'm sure you're not the worst. And I looked at her because I'm confident enough to say this. And I was like, oh, no, no. I'm not saying I couldn't learn. I mean, I, you know, I'm bright. I'm sure I can learn to garden. I have zero interest in learning to garden. And that's where I'm coming from. And the same thing happened recently with cooking. Now I do cook. I cook, you know, meals for my family, home cooked meals from scratch, Monday through Thursday. That's I have met, I was written up in the Wall Street Journal. I do meal planning on a whiteboard.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (30:40.32)

Yes.

Penny Goffman (30:58.305)

It's up for my whole family, but I cook because I constantly about healthy living and it 360 degree approach and part of that is cooking healthy for my family. I don't cook because I have a passion for cooking. So I was talking to another mom who's Italian and she, this is just yesterday and she was telling me how all the friends come over and she has all these home cooked meals right when they come over from school and how all the kids love them. By the way, that really is the way to your kids friend’s heart I'm not gonna lie. So she's got something there. And that is the way. And I was like, I was like, that is amazing. I was like, you know, I was like, it's a little bit fun picking because I'm like cooking up the dinner. And like, I feel like I don't have the gourmet like I'm not cooking fresh pastas and the machine. And we got into a similar type conversation where she was like talking about making the fresh pasta and the machine for the friends. And, and I was like, Oh my gosh, oh boy. I was like, I can cook and I can cook healthy. I was like, but again, we got she was like, Oh, it's okay. Like, I'm sure that they still, you know, like you and did it. And I was like, Oh, no, no, I'm sure that they like me too. So there is this.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (32:03.942)

I was solid in that.

Penny Goffman (32:25.609)

Yeah, exactly. I just don't want to make fresh pasta in the machine. I was like, and by the way, I was like, I eat a lot of zoodles. And so like, we got into this whole funny conversation. I was like, I'll make the zoodles. So it was just, you know, I think at the end of the day, it really is about knowing who you are. And if you don't know who you are, taking a lot of time to figure that out and then standing strong in that. And by the way, you can change. Moms can change. People can change. So you don't ever have to be set in who you are. We grow, we learn, we change 100 % through different chapters of our lives. But at the end of the day, it is important to know who your inner soul is, what your priorities are, and then standing firm in that with confidence.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (33:03.97)

Mm hmm. Yeah. My my story along those lines is everything to do with summer camp sign up in where I live.

Penny Goffman (33:12.329)

Oh yeah?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (33:33.07)

It's not like I mean, I don't live in like a very rural area, but there's not as many camps as there are children. And so it's this crazy like Hunger Games type deal of like trying to sign up for camp and trying to sign up for like spots and gymnastics and all this stuff. Like it's just insane. And when my oldest got into this age where we were like entering the gauntlet of like camp sign up and it became this like super competitive thing, I remember being like, literally no, I just like, I'm out on this. And so like, you know, we did one camp, but not, you know, all the camps. And then there's like the camp that's like, the hot one to go to or the camp that like everyone's trying to get into and all of that stuff. It's just this very weird keeping up kind of kind of situation. And so yeah, me, I feel you on the like, I don't think that we need to do all of these things just for the purpose of doing all of these things to like be in the right space at the right time.

Penny Goffman (34:25.953)

Absolutely, 100%.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:26.894)

It's nuts. It's totally nuts. There's so like, I feel like they anywhere you turn when it comes to parenting and a lot of it, I think falls in motherhood because of, you know, predominantly scheduling and planning and things like that is like, anything can become competitive. And I just, sometimes I'm like, I'm out. Like, I just don't, I don't want to play this game.

Penny Goffman (34:48.833)

Yeah, 100%. And something I just want to add was, if anyone has read, if you've read or anyone listening Untamed by Glennon Doyle, there was a few lines in there, but there was one line, and this is not a direct quote because I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm paraphrasing. She wrote something that has, and I read it years ago when it first came out, she wrote something that has stuck with me so much. I talk about it a lot, I write it about it a lot.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:59.382)

Mm -hmm.

Penny Goffman (35:18.753)

She spoke about moms being martyrs and she and I have a daughter and she basically wrote so eloquently that if you are a mom and you take on the martyr role, like, oh, me always doing everything, never have time for myself. And you take on that role and that is what you model in front of your daughter on the daily, the martyr role.

You are setting your daughter up to think that that's what motherhood has to look like. And she will fall into that. She will fall into that because all she will have seen for the whole duration of time that she has lived with you and then even after that, because it doesn't stop, is the woe be me, poor me, I'm the only one doing everything, I have no time for myself, oof, I'm the martyr here, and...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:54.478)

Yeah.

Penny Goffman (36:17.761)

Is that what you want? Forget about yourself. Is that what you want her to think motherhood looks like? So that is very powerful. It really resonated with me. And I think it's just something really important to think of.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (36:37.944)

Yeah, yeah, I think definitely, you know, there's always that idea of like, before you become a parent, it's like, right, everyone's the perfect parent before they have children. Right? It's like that, like, my kids will never do this, or my kids will eat everything that I make for them, or, you know, whatever. And I think that idea of like, what you what you envision motherhood to be and what you envision that experience going into it may not be what actually ends up coming out of it. And at the end of the day, how can you make it so that it is true to you? And it is the example that you want to bestow while combining all the other outside factors, right? Like the pressure from other people and the limitations or the strengths that you have in a social support network or financially or community or whatever.

It's how do you, how do you sort of integrate all that in a way that at the end of it, when, you know, when you're outside of not outside of parenting, but when your kids are grown and flown, that you feel like you didn't get washed away or you didn't get sort of swallowed up by this whole thing. They have an example to go forward on. That is how that is keeping themselves on the table or on the menu or they are a player in the team instead of just the team manager. And how does that all make sense so that everything gets done but everything is also healthy for everybody that has to get the things done.

Penny Goffman (38:19.777)

your person.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (38:21.152)

Mm -hmm. It's crazy. It is a crazy jumble of things to try and like take the outside and the inside and the stuff around you and you know, it's like social media and the news and just there's so much bandwidth that goes into filtering everything that's coming in. So much, so much. And so there was a question I was gonna ask you and I hope I didn't lose it.

Penny Goffman (38:25.363)

Thank you. So much. So much.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (38:50.318)

When you are, so the head of community piece, I love this, and I love the, really the situation that people sort of come into when they become a member of this. And the idea that motherhood is a really big part of this versus like business first, motherhood second, that these things happen together. And so, if there are people who are listening who are like, you know, I would like to check this out or I would like to hear more about it, not necessarily ready to join, but how do they, how do they sort of start getting involved in that? Who do they reach out to? Cause I'm guessing it's you.

Penny Goffman (39:34.273)

Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. And thank you for bringing this up. I probably would have forgotten to talk about this. If anyone is listening and is curious about Hey Mama, your first line of defense or first two or say is go to Hey Mama .co .com HeyMama .co. Just check it out. Right? See what the website is. We're at HeyMama co on Instagram. My personal email is penny@HeyMama.co again not com. Email me and basically, you know, if you're more interested after you've poked around the Instagram, if you poke around the website, I would love to invite anyone listening here to our 30 minute information session. We run it once a month. I think the next one is March 21st. Don't quote me, but I think that's what it is. So you can also RSVP directly from the website. So join the information session. It's 30 minutes. You can even be in your pajamas and just listening to the audio and just hear it out and see how it can help you. And of course, if anyone really wants to join right away and is on the website and like I'm ready to join, then here's a special friends and family code, use code Penny100. It's my personal code and it will be $100 off an annual membership. So I would love to connect with anyone who wants to talk more about HeyMama.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (40:59.438)

That's awesome. Yeah, and there's annual there's annual and monthly memberships, right? So if people are like, I want to try it, but I don't know that it like I can commit to a whole year right now.

Penny Goffman (41:09.275)

So technically it's a year membership but a monthly payment plan.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (41:13.678)

Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. It's I, you know, there's so many of these things that go on that I, um, I've been doing a lot of like business stuff and it's like, this is monthly and this is annual and all of that stuff. So I just want to make sure that we put out there what, what the, what the setup is. So, um, I really appreciate you coming on today and, um, I really appreciate the, the authenticity in the, in the, like I chose to.

Penny Goffman (41:26.377)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (41:43.854)

I live my life this way and I want to carry it on this way, despite, you know, people sort of wanting to push all the walls in and say, no, no, no, you have to like stay home and do all of this. And if you do this, you're doing it wrong and all of that stuff. So I welcome and applaud people that are sharing that kind of voice and perspective. Cause I do think that that is more common than not. And that it is that idea, like you're like, you even said, I felt like I couldn't say anything when people are standing there talking about all of the things that they need to do and you're thinking like, I'm not gonna do any of that or that's not my experience or whatever it is. So I think that there are more people out there that feel that way that are just doing that instead of speaking up. So thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective and sharing that aspect.

Penny Goffman (42:36.705)

Thank you so much for having me, Ashley. I'm excited to hear the episodes, spray it out, get more MAMAs talking about it, let our Hey Mama community know about it for sure. And I really appreciate the opportunity.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:51.022)

That's awesome. And I will put all of the links and the code in the show notes just so if people are driving or whatever and they don't.

Penny Goffman (43:06.803)

Perfect. Thank you again.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:07.13)

Thank you.