Full Episode Transcript

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:01.106)

All right, welcome back to the In Both podcast. I am here today with Valerie Ricore. She is from Stride Productivity, or productivity depending on where you geographically land in the world. And so welcome. I'm excited to have you here today.

Valerie Recore (00:16.189)

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:18.186)

Yeah. So how about if we start off, the big question is always, who are you? What do you do? The general gist of it. And then we tend to just sort of filter down into more of the nitty gritty details as we go.

Valerie Recore (00:32.043)

Yeah. So I am a productivity coach and I help moms. I focus on moms and my goal is to help moms gain a sense of control, spend time with their families and really end their days feeling at peace. I'm also a certified fair play method facilitator which is a mouthful, but it's a big focus on the mental load of motherhood and how to share that mental load with your partner and your family in a way that gets everybody on the same team. Just kind of rebalance all of that because I believe that moms do way too much. We've been conditioned to do too much and I am on a mission to really help moms focus on what's important to them and their families and their lives instead of all the things that society is telling us that we need to be doing.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:24.01)

Yes, the shoulds, the shoulds of the world. So how did you get into this? Was this inspired by your own experience? Was it, like, how did you come to be in the productivity coaching world?

Valerie Recore (01:38.327)

How did I get here? Before I had kids, I worked in corporate training. And when my oldest, who's now 11, was born, I quit the corporate world and opened my own professional organizing business because I had in my head that I was going to find this perfect work-life balance where I was going to have the flexibility to be home with my kids, and I was going to be able to work and quickly realize that is not actually a thing. That is just not possible, right?

work-life balance. And running a business without child care and an infant at home is rather impossible. And then figuring out how to have another kid on top of that. And so the organizing business kind of limped along for a few years while my kids were little and then I had more time when they started preschool. And then that piece kind of morphed into what I'm doing now. Working with clients where I loved helping them more with their time management and productivity than like organizing their closets. Listening to my friends complain about, well, one talk about how busy they are, right? We talk about how busy we are like a badge of honor. And also complaining about their husbands and their partners, like they had another kid to take care of and that never sat well with me. It was sort of this like, why are we getting married and having kids if our husbands are also somebody else we have to take care of?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (02:51.074)

Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (03:08.055)

And so, and I also love reading time management books. I love Laura Vanderkam, Julie Morgenstern. I just love reading about productivity. And so taking what I would learn from those books and listening to my friends, and then I came across Fair Play, and then the pandemic happened, and I'm just watching moms just get slammed left and right. And something I knew we could do better. And so I shifted my company to work to focus on productivity for mom so that I could help moms really just step back from the chaos of every day and figure out what how they really want to be spending their time to get away from the shoulds and really just focus on what's important to them and how we want to be spending our time and I use all of this in my own life as well so my husband and I use the fair play method you know I've everything I talk about I have experienced and have worked on in my own life as well.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (04:08.274)

Yeah, I think it's really important to, um, I think it's, well, two things. One, I think it's interesting and, um, not a coincidence that you are one of a few fair play facilitators that has, um, found their way to this podcast and, um, as a, as a guest, um, but that there is that element of like having something tangible to say, okay, this is what I notice, this is what I hear, this is an actual like physical strategy that we can try and implement and put in there. And I think that that's, I feel like that is the beauty of something like the Fair Play method where you're not just saying, here's what we should do. Like you're not putting, it's not like should versus should, right? It's just, it's like what we're doing clearly doesn't work. So now this is what we're going to try. And it has a strategy, it has boundaries, it has all sorts of steps to go along with. Because I think that helps us so much with these conversations because there's so much emotion tied to it that it's easy to come at it from a place of like, this hurts for me, therefore I'm mad at you, this hurts for you, therefore you're mad at me. And then we are stuck in this cycle of like never finding resolution.

Valerie Recore (05:36.787)

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. And I think there's coupled within that is this, trying to get to this place where we understand that many men out there were never taught this stuff. We as women are absolutely conditioned to take all of the parenting, all of the household management on and we've been shown how to do it, but we're sitting here mad that our partners aren't helping or aren't participating, but they don't know what they're not, they don't know what they don't know. They don't know how to step in. And then they, if they do, they might ask, you know, just write me a list, right? Like how many post-it notes of lists of tasks I wanted my husband to do. But I write, I'd stick it on the kitchen counter and like three days later, it's buried under a pile of stuff and nobody, it's not happening. And so the Fair Play method really brings out that how do we do this in a way that isn't me just telling you what to do and you waiting for me to tell you what to do? It's empowering everybody to take on their own tasks fully without mom having to be that reminder, that manager, which I think is the beauty of this work.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:59.178)

Yeah, and I think too, I saw a video the other day and it was a woman and she was saying, the absolute best thing that I could possibly do for my husband as a parent is to allow him to struggle. And it's that idea, right? Like we're conditioned to like, if you know the answer, why don't you just fix it? But why don't you just fix it turns into, you're the only one who fixes things or the only one who takes these things on or the only, you know, it's all of that back and forth piece that happens. And so having that ability, like we all flounder. I don't know a single mom who was like, Oh, yeah, I had a kid and I knew what I was doing. You know, like we're all like you how many times can you button a onesie before you buy the zipper because you're like I can not. I cannot. I am a grown adult and I cannot put a human into this contraption.

Valerie Recore (07:35.647)

Hehehehe. Mm-hmm. Right? I can't do this.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (07:58.666)

And then when it's dark and it's just like we it's totally fine. Like we're so I don't want to say patient, but like we are understanding that like as individuals, as moms, we are learning how to do this stuff and like we screwed up. We do have that added layer of like, I made this person. So therefore like there should be some light switch moment where I become this like all knowing all seeing all doing. However, when we, when we have such of a big like a bulldozer kind of mentality with like the problem solving and things like that it really cuts off the opportunity for other people to go through that struggle and learning period and things like that.

Yes, I think that and I think that, you know, what happens to is so many times people say, you know, like, Oh, would we get to a certain point, then, you know, like when the baby's like three months old, or when the baby's six months old or whatever, but it's like, you know, it's in your experience, too, it sounds like just right out the gate, it's got to be it's got to be heinous in order to get better.

Valerie Recore (09:07.198)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (09:07.254)

Otherwise, this is the pattern and the pathway that you're on. And the farther you walk down, the harder it is to find your way back to where you want to be.

Valerie Recore (09:09.695)

Yeah, and to let go of that, I think as women, we are also conditioned that our way is the right way. And so when we see our husbands or partners changing diapers or packing the diaper bag or doing something, loading the dishwasher in a way that is different from us, we have a hard time with that because we just feel like we are doing it. Our way is better or our way is the right way. And so we just take it all on or we want something done on our own timeline versus, hey, the trash needs to be out by Monday morning. It's your week to take the trash. Like it is your responsibility to deal with it. I'm not gonna sit here Monday, Sunday night and remind you, you can chase the trash truck down the street. Like this isn't... And finding a way to just kind of let go a little bit, which I know is hard, right? Like it's certainly hard to let go of that control, but there's something beautiful in being able to not have to worry about something because it's not our job or task right now. And so we can focus on other stuff and have space for ourselves or something different. But it's a process to get there, absolutely.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:15.49)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:24.39)

Yeah, yeah, I think to the part of that, like letting go of control piece also is coupled with the fact that like, any what is the quote, it's like it takes so little for a dad to be considered a good dad, and it's so little for a mom to be considered a bad mom. And it's that idea of like, if the ball gets dropped, where does where does the blame naturally travel to?

Valerie Recore (10:43.905)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:53.682)

And that like that not being able to let go of control, because whether or not you are a part of that, if something gets messed up, it's gonna fall on your shoulders anyways. And I think that like, we are, that is such hard conditioning to overcome. I mean, I remember we went to this event when we had, I think three kids, and my youngest was an infant, and like my husband had gotten the stroller out of the seat and out of the back of the car. And she's in there and with the other two kids. And then, you know, like the kid inevitably poops, like in the middle of whatever you're going to see. And it's just this whole thing. And I was like, oh, I'll go change her. And I looked at him, I was like, we don't have any diapers. Like they were in the car.

Valerie Recore (11:45.985)

Yes.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (11:49.822)

It wasn't like, you know, we're six hours away from home or whatever, but, and he was like, oh, okay. I was like, well, like If you don't get the bag out of the car with the kid and the stroller, then we don't have it. And it's not like, oh my God, I couldn't believe that you left this. It's just like, well, here we are and we have a problem to solve. I mean, she did get a diaper. She's six now, so life moved on. But it's just those moments of like, I knew that the people that we were there with were like, oh, how come she didn't bring the diaper bag?

Valerie Recore (12:07.007)

Hahaha. Mm-hmm. Right.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (12:19.766)

But in that moment, of course, like I also like have a child that's young enough to have a diaper bag. And I have two other kids where I'm like, you didn't bring it? That's your problem. And they're all like, oh God, what is this? This woman needs a nap. This woman needs a coffee and a snack in that order. Exactly. Oh my gosh. So you, um, the, the productivity piece, like, cause the, I think that fair play is fascinating all on its own. Um. But the productivity piece, and this seems to be the, this is the larger component of the two, is what does that look like for you in terms of like, who reaches out to you? Is there a stage that they're typically at? Like, what are some of the trends that you notice in that lineup?

Valerie Recore (13:09.447)

Yeah, so it's really moms who are just kind of over it. They're ready for something to change. They know they cannot or don't want to carry on with this endless task list and endless list of commitments and activities that they're doing. And they're ready for something to change and just not quite sure how to take that next step. And so the beginning piece, because I think we just, we get so focused on the fact, this idea that our kids need to be constantly entertained. They need all of these activities and this enrichment. And we say yes to everything. Cause as moms, we have a really hard time saying no to stuff. Right? Somebody wants us to be a parent, a room parent, or they need help on the PTA, or they need this or that at school or in our community. And we're like, we just say yes without really even thinking about it because we just were people pleasers and we feel like this is what we need to be doing to make everybody else happy. Instead of understanding like, okay, right now, I don't have the capacity to do X, Y, and Z. So I'm going to say no, right?

Beginning of the school year, they needed room parents and somebody asked me to be a co-parent and I just said no, because I know that as much as they need the help, I will be resentful every time I have to show up to anything and do that. And so it was just like, no, thank you. And they were able to find somebody else. But you know, how five years ago, I would have been like, well, sure, fine, knowing full well that I didn't want to do it. And so that people pleasing and sort of getting those boundaries in there. And like talking with a mom who her son does soccer, because every other kid in the neighborhood does soccer. Not necessarily that she wants to do it or her son loves it, but that felt like the only way her kid was ever going to have time to play with the neighborhood kids and pushing back on that idea of maybe there are other families that also don't want to be doing this but feel the same way that you do. So could you have that conversation of maybe, you know, maybe three days a week you all need care after school because everybody's wrapping up work. Can you find a way to support each other through that versus everybody signing people up for soccer? Like I feel like we feel obligated to do all of this stuff.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (15:30.583)

Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (15:32.351)

Like the beginning work, how I start working with my clients is really figuring out where your time is going. Because I don't think we have any idea really. We think we know. But if you track your time, truly track your time, you might be surprised at where, how you really are spending your time. I've had clients who are in and out of multiple grocery stores for the week because they just, they run out of something. They're worried their kids are going to be upset if they don't have the right yogurt or snacks and so they're in and out of grocery stores trying to make this happen. And so we talk about, can we streamline that? What does that look like? What happens if your kids go a few days or a week without their favorite snack, if there's something else to eat in the house? And so when you take a look at how you're spending your time coupled with identifying your values or your goals for the next season, right? What do I want the next six months of my life to look like? Because when your kids are young, that's gonna shift over time.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:14.712)

Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (16:30.607)

Every three to six months, life is going to feel a little bit different. So what are our commitments right now? Are we committed to all of these sports through the end of the season, but we know we'll get through the spring, but in the fall we're going to say no and not register for all these sports. Everybody gets one activity period, because that's still a lot. If you have two or three kids, that's still a lot of driving around and commitments. And so it's really taking a good look at how we're spending our time and seeing if that's how we want to spend our time, right? If you love being busy and you love having all these activities going on, go for it. If you feel obligated to do it and you feel like there is, it's too much, then let's look at how we can kind of get you out of some of these activities and cut back going forward.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (17:23.97)

Yeah, I think the constant recalibration, or not even recalibration, but the constant conversation about, are we still all going in the direction that we wanna be going, and are we all still doing things that align with where we are is essential. I mean, this is, I came to this space, I came to this space where you are basically in a very similar style of, there are too many things.

Valerie Recore (17:28.899)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (17:55.622)

I don't know when to say no because it's always just trying to like cram another piece in. And that's how Dovetail, my company, started was building the actual physical tools for people to be able to like have a visual representation, to be able to say yes, no, and all of those things. So like you and I are on the same team and we are speaking the same language, that's for sure.

Valerie Recore (18:02.452)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:21.834)

Because it's true, I think like there's so we get so swept up in being like that you just there's so many messages of like, you know, you only get 18 summers and you only get this and they're only little ones and they're only this and like all of that stuff is true. But there's this idea that like because things are so quick and they move through stages so quickly that like you have to cram as much as possible into each little thing instead of designing your life the way that you want it to look. It's like you're just trying to shoehorn another thing in there.

Valerie Recore (19:03.019)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right, and then you spend all of your time exhausted. And that's, yeah, exactly, that is what we do. And we, it's that pushback. My hope is that enough moms eventually push back against it that it starts to change. And I get it from, like, I grew up very active. I did all sorts of things growing up. And my mom struggles. I think she feels like we're just not quite doing it right with our kids, because they're not that active.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (19:04.59)

And that's terrible. But we do. Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (19:31.835)

Our kids are not sports lovers, they're not, you know, we encourage them to do after school activities but I'm not signing them up for everything. It's what they want to do and if they want to come home and hang out with their friends or relax, I'm fine with that. But I have had comments from my parents of just kind of like they're not quite sure what we're doing. Like, are you sure that this is okay and that your kids aren't so busy? And I'm just like, I don't care. Like, my kids are happy and they're growing and they know how to entertain themselves. And if they want to come home and watch TV for an hour every day and relax and then go play with their friends. I'm all for that. And who's to say that, you know, being on a traveling soccer team is really what they need versus not that. But I also feel like we just don't, as moms, we don't, like, I don't have time to sit down and think about my values and what I want life to feel like. I don't have time to reassess all of this stuff, but it doesn't have to be a big project. Like I don't like we're asking you to overhaul your life over a weekend. This is small steps taken over time that eventually get you to a place where you do have more time in your day or life just doesn't feel quite as exhausting and you're prioritizing time for yourself and time with your friends as well as time with your family and all these other activities and I mean got the upkeep of life is just hard right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (20:38.977)

Yeah.

Valerie Recore (20:57.247)

The dishes and laundry and cleaning and bills and whatever, like just keeping up with that is exhausting. You throw in all these other commitments, it gets complicated and so it's okay to say no. And I'm hoping that enough moms eventually catch on to that and we kind of push back against this idea of having to be so busy. And then

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:16.246)

Mm hmm. And I wonder too, like thinking about your like your parents, like, where did I wonder about like where this idea of like, when did it come? When did it turn from, you know, like kids of the 50s? Kids of the 30s? Like, who knows where they were kids of the 50s? Like, come out, come home when the streetlights are on kids of the 70s, like, probably might want to have known where they were. And then like kids of the nineties are like the, you know, the last, like our generation of people that like, yeah, like the eighties and nineties, like generation of people that, you know, lived before the internet. So could be bored and lived before travel teams. So like, you didn't have the option to be on all those teams. You didn't have the extracurricular, yada yada. Like it was just like,

soccer and hockey and softball and baseball. And, you know, there's like a half a dozen things to choose from. And you went to the Y for summer camp. And like that's it, right. And it's like, like all those people now are paying mortgages and rent and utilities and they have children and clothing and you know, like it all happens, but it's just such a pressure cooker situation for parents today.

Valerie Recore (22:41.767)

It is. It's this, I, this probably could be a whole other conversation. Um, so I'll try to summarize what little sort of my thoughts on that. It's, it's this belief that our kids, in order for them to be successful in life, need to get into a, what we consider a good college. And so they have to build that resume to get into the college starting when they're little. And so it's pushing on all of that. And so we, like during the pandemic, like we stayed home for several years and my kids are in elementary school. And my fifth grader, I struggle now to even find things to sign her up for because it is assumed that her age, she's been doing stuff for years. So I can't, you know, like, oh, I want to sign her up for a dance class. And like, it's not just intro learn how to dance around a room. It's you need to have been doing all of this stuff for several years.

And it's like, but she hasn't, so why can't there be a, and why does it have to be leading towards something, right? Like, can't she just take a dance class that is just for the fun of it to learn how to move her body? She did gymnastics last year and she was the tallest, oldest girl in her class because it was, everybody else was little and everybody else her age had been doing gymnastics for a long time. And it was just, she didn't care, thankfully, but I just thought just like I struggle with that of why can't we just have an activity that is just for fun, the fun of it instead of needing to and yes we want to build skills and we want to get better and all of that but I don't it doesn't need to lead to like division one soccer in college. It's just let's learn how to move your body and enjoy this activity versus this optimizing it to get into a good college down the road.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (24:35.04)

Right.

Valerie Recore (24:35.111)

And we feed into that pressure cooker as adults because we feel like that is the only way for our kids to be successful, is to get into a good college, not just go to college, like the name of the college is important. And so it starts when they're little and we're worried if we opt out of that, that we're going to ruin our kids' chances of being successful down the road, which I think is, I understand, but I would like us to fight back against that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (24:58.241)

Yeah, and also that notion too of like, if our kids didn't get into a good college, does that mean that we didn't do it the right way? And so then you have your own competing stuff with the pressure on the kids. Have you read Jennifer Brehaney Wallace's book, Never Enough?

Valerie Recore (25:23.923)

No, I'll have to add that to my list.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (25:31.958)

And it's so it's it is fascinating because it is all about kids that grow up in these like high pressure. I mean, it's not like specific kids, but this like cultural movement towards like, if you like to dance, then you're in 12 hours of dance a week when you're eight years old and you're doing all of these things. But that the kids that are that are living these high pressure childhoods are have significantly worse mental health crises. They have significant. It's like the

The message that is being relayed to children in this is you are your performance and you are your outcomes and that you have value when you achieve versus you have value and you have skills and whatever you achieve is great. And so all of these things are coming together and the waves are all crashing. And what's happening is, but like add a layer of social media whipped cream on top of that. And it's just a recipe for the absolute hardest time for kids nowadays because it's not necessarily your performance is graded against the people on your team, but your performance is also potentially graded against people all over the world. It's like, I wouldn't wanna join a swim team if I was watching Michael Phelps win gold medals at the same age, right? It's like, oh, well, I mean, I guess this guy's cornered the market. Like, what are we doing here? But like, it's like so connected.

Valerie Recore (26:51.857)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (26:57.894)

But that the conversation is happening more about the struggle on children specifically. So I think that you're definitely on the right track when it comes to trying to make sure that kids are doing the things so that they build the skills, but they're not doing the things just for the purpose of doing the things. And that's a hard line because they also want to be with their friends and figuring out where to say, I'm not really sure that travel soccer is the best way to like, do this.

Valerie Recore (27:33.611)

Right. And then what does that mean for your time together as a family? Right. If we're always traveling for somebody's games, then we're not spending time together as a family or we're not doing, I mean, just my eight year old played soccer a couple, when one season of soccer she played, I remember just feeling resentful on some weekends of just like, I would rather be doing X, Y, or Z. Right. It was like eight weeks of games. It really wasn't even that big of a deal, but I just remember being

All right, this game was at one o'clock in the afternoon. Like we're not going to go take a family hike or do anything else because we have this game. And there's something to the being on a team and all of those skills and that piece of it. But then also the, this impacts anything else that we want to be doing. And so just being aware of that or knowing, okay, we're going to play soccer in the fall, but in the spring, we're going to spend time together doing other stuff. Or we're going to prioritize this or that, or we're going to skip this one game to go spend the weekend away, or that we just make such a big deal out of these commitments and they don't need to be quite so intense, but we fall into that. Or skip a game. And expensive, yeah, there's that piece too.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (28:45.394)

Right. And expensive. Yeah.

Valerie Recore (28:58.815)

Yeah, it gets complicated, but we just feel so obligated to do all of it and we don't know how to step back and say no because everybody else around us is doing the same thing. And so.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:02.768)

Yeah, it's just obligation meets obligation meets obligation meets resentment.

Valerie Recore (29:09.152)

Mm-hmm, absolutely.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:12.238)

And so when people, so if people are like listening and undoubtedly going, yeah, me over here, hi in the back, do you work with people? Is it virtual? Is it coursework? Is it in-person? Like what does a session or are there different tracks? What does that look like?

Valerie Recore (29:31.831)

What is that? Yeah, so everything I do is virtual because I don't wanna get out of my sweatpants, let's be honest. And that is my work life balance. If I have to put on other pants, it's not good. It's all self-paced with lots of support. So lots of, it's coursework, but it's designed to fit into the nooks and crannies of your life.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:40.426)

Nailed it. That's your work-life balance right there.

Valerie Recore (29:58.531)

So a less than 10 minute audio file or video file, whichever one works best for you, followed by implementing something from that file or that course in your life with regular live Zoom calls or coaching calls to support you if and when you get stuck. So you can show up to a call and say, hey, I did this thing this weekend. It did not go well. Let's talk about how to...

tweak it or show up and celebrate. Hey, I did this thing and my husband took over this task and my 13 year old is doing this thing and now I have all this time on my hands, what am I gonna do? And so we celebrate and support because I think moms try to go it alone too much. And we need that, just that support to know that we're not the only ones out there experiencing this stuff. I think there's magic in that community. And I know that there's, you have a lot going on.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (30:35.554)

Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (30:54.123)

And so I want to support you from where you are and get you to where you want to be with as much or as little FaceTime and support from me as what works for you. So it's very self-paced. It's very individual for that person. And we can have one-on-one coaching calls if that's going to move you forward. But for the most part, it's a community designed to just support you where you are.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (31:22.19)

That's awesome. And so people, what sort of things do you cover in the work that you do with people? Yeah, what are the areas that you focus on?

Valerie Recore (31:34.235)

Sure. So we start with a lot of just the mindset shifts of like realizing that moms do too much, we don't need to do all of it. Looking at how you're spending your time versus how do you want to be spending your time? What are your goals? What are your family values? And then building routines and systems in your life to get you from point A to point B. So let's look at family meetings. Let's look at what activities you're saying yes to. We get into people pleasing and boundaries and how to kind of work on realizing where you might need support in that part of your life and then evaluating. So really that consistently taking a look at is this working for me? Oh, it's a new school year. Are we going to do things differently this year? We're coming upon summer. What is summer going to look like versus the school year? So it's really starting with where you are and how you're spending your time to where you want to be living and getting you from point A to point B coupled with implementing the Fair Play system, if that makes sense for you. But really the biggest piece is that building those routines and those systems to get it so that life just feels more spacious so that you can focus on what's important to you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (32:43.606)

Yeah. And so for you specifically, less general, more specific, what does that look like for you? So what are the things that you like to focus on? What are the things that move the needle in the right direction for you?

Valerie Recore (33:01.579)

Yeah. So in my own life, it's really working. Right now we're really working on getting our kids involved in stuff, so helping them learn how to make dinner, change sheets, sort of do all of those household tasks, working on how my husband and I share our tasks in our own life, all the dishes and laundry and all those things, how we work on that. So, like for example, we do with our dishes, we do Monday, Sunday through Saturday, one person is fully in charge of loading and emptying the dishwasher. And then we change that next Sunday. And we've implemented that person is also in charge of taking out the trash and keeping up with the recycling and our one kind of our, our rule, um, what the fair play would call the minimum standard of care is that whoever's making breakfast can make breakfast without having to clean the kitchen.

So at the end of the day, the kitchen is clean enough that somebody can come in and make breakfast the next day and not have to do a bunch of work. It does not mean that all of the dishes are taken care of and that everything is spotless, but that there's space for dinner or breakfast. And that consistently evaluating stuff as our kids get older. So my oldest is gonna start middle school in the fall. So our routines are gonna look different because now we have two school drop-offs. So what does that look like? What activities does she want to sign up for while she is there? And how committed to things do we want us to be? So it's really taking, I'm trying to follow my own advice to be honest. Yeah, that's hopefully that answers that question. That was where you were headed there.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:49.389)

Yeah, it's hard because, you know, so like it's going through like you help people go through and find this time that they you know, they may be like, Oh, I didn't realize I had all this time or it's like validation of wait, I really didn't have time. Like I'm doing things really well. And I like I am overloaded. And so now I need to like push these things off. And so like, on your end, what do you what do you do with your time?

Valerie Recore (35:17.943)

Thank you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:28.47)

when you have the time. Like implementing these things is great. Like how does that shake down for you?

Valerie Recore (35:32.067)

Yeah. Mm-hmm me? To be honest, that is still very much a work in progress of that, like, what do I want to be doing with my time outside of life management? And that is one of my goals for 2024 is to figure out what that looks like. And it might be a dance class this summer or something totally random. I've always wanted to take up sailing. I live in Denver, so there's, it's not like I know, there's some places that I could take that up, we'll see. It could be joining a book club. Right now it's really just trying to figure that out. And I think that's hard and I sometimes wonder if we don't want to do this work because it means we're going to suddenly have time where we realize now we have to figure out what we like to do, like what are our hobbies and passions. And it's scary to be suddenly going, oh, I really could be doing this thing. What, but I don't, that that's scary to me. Like that's a huge leap. And so it could just be going to the nearest coffee shop or bookstore and having a cup of tea and reading a book for an hour.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (36:41.218)

Yeah.

Valerie Recore (36:58.911)

Uh, or even I would suggest just driving to the nearest, driving around the corner of your house and just sitting there for 30 minutes and just like trying to hold that space while you figure out what that might be or finding a friend who's in the same boat so that you can explore this together and coming up with a list of like once a month we're going to go try something new, whatever that might be a new restaurant, a painting class, just sort of playing with that because I think that's so important for us to have. But to be honest I'm still trying to figure that out because I have to get out of my sweatpants and you know you know so baby steps we will get there okay maybe it's just reading a book instead of watching Netflix

Dr. Ashley Blackington (37:30.584)

Yeah, baby steps. Right? And so your kids are your kids are eight and 11 you said.

Valerie Recore (37:47.037)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (37:59.73)

So I think too like that also is an important point to bring up given where you're moving into now because you know, I think that when you have babies and toddlers and preschoolers and that age, there's so much physical presence that has to happen. There's so much vigilance that has to happen that even if you're not always like, you're not reading more in peace as your side activity because there is so much energy and focus has to go into things that can seemingly go awry rather quickly or like schedules change and things like that. But where your kids, so I have four and my oldest are 11 and just turned nine. And so I think about this sometimes with them and it's like their stage of where they are, my younger two are six and four now. And like the stage of where I was when I had the two that were six and four.

I was still very much in that like, you know, we're trying to someone's not in school full time and someone is, we're still doing like the classes during the day for stuff and all those different like there's just so much more flex that has to happen. And I work for myself too. So that's the other that's the other pieces like the, if you have the flexibility, the flexibility is asked of you or expected of you and things like that.

But now that the older two, like there's a half day at school today and my oldest is going to one friend's house and her brother is going to another friend's house and all the logistics that we have to do on the half day are for the younger two. Like I could very well spend the afternoon like and they would come home at the normal time that they come home even though it's a half day of school. Like because they can ride their bike places and they can do all that stuff. So like really moving into that space of like, your kids can go down the street and play with their friends if you live in a place that, you know, that's an option. Like you really are moving into that phase of, I really have this time where like, I could walk into the living room and nobody's home and everyone's fine and it's not school and I'm done with my work for today.

Valerie Recore (40:12.526)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (40:22.687)

What does this mean? Yeah, now what?

Valerie Recore (40:23.351)

Yeah. Now what? Yeah. And giving yourself grace when your kids are little and you don't feel like you have that space and time. Or creating that space and time with your partner. So when our kids were little, and we still do this to some degree, we still read to our kids at night, but when they were younger, we traded off who put the kids to bed. And whoever there was somebody in charge of putting the kids to bed and somebody, the other person would clean the kitchen and then have time to themselves. And when our kids were little, we had to sit in their room with them until they fell asleep because that was just how things worked in our house. But it gave the other parent, like I could clean the kitchen and watch a 45 minute episode of TV by myself before my husband was done. And I get, if you're a single parent or shift work, like there's all sorts of things that are up in the air, but that could just be where possible, you hire a babysitter once a month to just give yourself an evening free. And I think we get so into this thinking that we have to be the ones that put our kids to bed every night instead of giving ourselves that space to say, okay, you know what, I really just need a break. Then it might be that I'm gonna go lay on the couch in the basement or some in my room with the door closed while somebody else takes care of all of this. Knowing that down the road, yes, your kids are going to reach a point where they don't need quite so much hands-on focus and attention. They can do more for themselves and it's a beautiful place to be. And then you do have that luxury of going, okay, now what? What does this mean? Do I go do something productive and like clean something or can I curl up on the couch with a book and giving yourself that space to do that without feeling guilty and knowing that it will happen eventually.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:18.826)

Yeah, and knowing that both of those options are equally valid. That's the other part, too, is like, you know, how many how many times do you like your example before, like how many times do you get in your car and you drive around the corner and you sit there and you're like, take five breaths and you're like, OK, well, now that I'm out of the house, I think I can run and grab this from this store for the kids or I can I can go to the dry cleaners or.

Valerie Recore (42:22.816)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:45.758)

I can go and do all this really quick because I'm by myself. So I'm not bringing kids in and out of car seats and things like that. But that's not your leisure time. That is just a more hands-free version of your life when you have your kids with you. And we confuse that as leisure time because it's not as hard or as challenging to check those boxes as it would be if we have everybody with us. But that's not leisure. That is not. Don't, don't, from the pulpit. Do not, do not include quickly finishing your to-do list as leisure. It does not count.

Valerie Recore (43:21.381)

No. Don't confuse that. No. No, no. Ha ha

Valerie Recore (43:34.811)

No. Plus, I think it's important for kids to see us doing some of that work. Like one of my favorite things of having my kids home during the pandemic was they got to see the work it took to run a household. I'm pretty sure my kids thought we dropped them off at school and like went home and partied all day and they had like no idea. And then suddenly they're in it with us of like, no, we do all of these things like mom and dad are working and doing all of these tasks while you are at school.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:52.503)

Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (44:03.655)

And now they got to see that and not, you know, I still run errands. I've always, because I have been able to run errands without my kids. Like I get the like, yes, your kids need to know how to go into Target or groceries shopping and do it, but I'm also of the, like, it's just so much easier to do it without them. And so if I have that availability, I'm going to do it without them. If we can work on that down the road but they also do need to see some of that work. So help me put away the groceries, help me unpack everything I just bought from Target, because half of it is stuff that you need. Or like getting them, you know, stop doing all of the stuff where they don't see it or they're not participating because they need to know all of the work it takes to run a household and it's important for them.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (44:36.674)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's the being the visual representation is how they're going to see how that happens. And I agree, like in my in my house, it was when especially during the pandemic, it was like, when you go to bed at night, and you wake up in the morning, and everything looks exactly the same. It's not going to go back to like, like Mary Poppins is not showing up in this place.

Valerie Recore (45:17.7)

Hehehehe. You ready?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:19.338)

Access denied. So if you want a clean place to play in the playroom, you have to clean it up. If you want a place to be able to sit at the table and color, you have to clean up the project. Because quite honestly, during COVID, I was like, I cannot just like that idea of like, oh, let's just reset.

But it's like when everything is coming out of the drawers and everything is coming out of the cabinet all day long, like, all right, guys, I guess here's where we're at. If you wanna move on to a new project, you have to pick up the project from before. And it's like, why is all this stuff here? I'm like, I don't know, but wasn't me. As I'm folding laundry with like one pair of sweatpants and I'm like, who else lives here? This is interesting.

Valerie Recore (45:42.528)

Mm-mm. Right. I'm gonna do it.

Valerie Recore (46:08.607)

Huh? Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (46:14.519)

Oh my gosh. Well I think that is, have you noticed since, so you started this during COVID or the transition to working with moms was during COVID. Have you noticed since the back to whatever has happened, have you noticed an uptick in people who are like, oh wait a minute.

Valerie Recore (46:15.232)

Oh, mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (46:39.434)

I know I actually want to have some big changes. Or are you noticing, are there trends that you're noticing in that front?

Valerie Recore (46:46.807)

Hmm. Um, I, not as much as I would hope. I think there was a lot of let's just get back to normal. Versus the my big feeling about the last few years was that this was such a great reset. Like here was a chance for us to really rethink stuff, our lives, our society, our systems. And I have not seen I think we've just gone back to the craziness of life before. And we're all just even more tired, right? Like I just, everybody I talk to, it just feels like everything feels like an uphill battle to do stuff, but nobody is going, okay, well, why and can we change it? Because it feels hard. We just feel like we have to get back to the way things were. And we're all just way more tired, is kind of.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (47:28.034)

Mm-hmm.

Valerie Recore (47:42.647)

That's kind of what I have noticed. I think there's more talk about the mental load and things shifting, but I'm not noticing as much as I would hope in terms of people ready to do this work. I think we're still just kind of recovering from the last few years, which really is the best time then at this point in my biased opinion is then let's shift things right now before we fall too back into everything.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (47:57.708)

Right, yeah, so when you have people that are like, you know, what do you want it to look like when you go out into the world? Well, now it's like, when are we ever gonna have another time in our life when literally like there's a, you know, control alt delete that happens to the planet, and then we can just say, okay, let's fire it up again and see if we can do it in a different way. Yeah, I think that it's great that there is the conversation that's happening, the conversations about mental load and the conversations about, you know, balance in your life and activities and things like that. Like all of these pieces that suck time and attention and finances and all of that away. And that hopefully, you know, it starts with that. And then it starts to move in the direction of, okay, well, we've been saying this, like we went back to school or we went back to whatever in this time and it's been one, two, three years, and it's still feeling like we just got out of the pandemic yesterday, instead of doing this for like day after day forever and ever, how do we change? How do we make changes and how do we implement things? And how do we like streamline as much as possible so that we aren't feeling like, like did we all just have like this giant like shock to the system of realizing how, like we, everything stopped and we all realized how exhausting it was and how tired we were. And now we just never get back to that level of numbness we had to it before. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is.

Valerie Recore (49:51.467)

Yeah, I don't either. I don't have that answer either. I feel like we could keep talking and figure that out. But anyway.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (49:54.726)

Yeah, big, big philosophical things here. Well, so for... Yeah. Well, I definitely want to have the conversation about overscheduling and sports and afterschool activities and all of that. So I would love to have you come back and talk about that because that is a rabbit hole that I will happily dive down any time as a mom with a bunch of kids, but also as an OT. It's just... There's a lot. There's a lot out there that we don't need. And so people that are sitting there, driving, washing dishes, vacuuming, sitting, just sitting, that's leisure if it's just sitting. How do they, and they're like, I need to do this. I'm ready to like do this. How do they get in touch with you, where to find you, and what does that all, what does that look like?

Valerie Recore (50:45.559)

Yeah. So I have a private podcast where I talk about all of this in more detail and you can find that at stri forward slash school pickup. Every episode is less than like five maybe eight minutes so you can listen to it while you're in the school pickup line. You can also head to stri and there are several ways there to just dive right into my membership or schedule a call with me if you're not quite sure but want to chat with me a little bit about what that might look like. So I would love to hear kind of takeaways from this conversation what stuck with you. Certainly check in with me and let me know your thoughts.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (51:42.798)

That's awesome. All right. Well, I thank you so much for coming today. I love what you're doing. I think that we need more conversations and more like shifting the beads on the abacus so that it make it all make sense kind of mentality.

Valerie Recore (51:59.115)

Yeah, yeah, well, thank you for having me. It's been a great conversation.